First Test: Australia vs. British and Irish Lions (22/06/13)

[donmcdazzle]

Despite being on his feet supporting his weight?

He wasn't though, he flopped down onto he ball without supporting his weight. That was my view as a neutral, you might have your green goggles on.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Agree to disagree, O'Driscoll has been doing that all season and allot his career and rarely gets done.

 

[Groundhog]

Perfect early steals from O'Driscoll as far as I'm concerned. Flop my hole. Less flop on that steal than a fist full of viagra pills.

 

[nealn]

Completely agree.

Funny no one is kicking up a fuss about it now, compared in that club match. Can't imagine why

Ha! To be honest when I posted that I was just pointing out that it was, in my opinion, definitly "something" and not a hand-off as someone else felt but I don't actually really have a problem with him doing it. Slightly d**k-ish definitly but don't think it's major in the scope of things.

Of course that opinion that it's not a big deal is coloured by him doing it in a Lions jersey and if he did it whilst playing for Wales or Saints next year my opinion would be different because I am pretty unobjective (but at least I'm honest about it!).

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I think both were deemed forward. In any case, Croft's poor pass forced BOD to try and tap it on.

Very true - meant to add that in to my post but...didn't
BOD could either try and take the ball, get tackled as soon as he connected, and knock on, or make the 50/50 slap pass.

 

[Rich Taff]

Not sure why people are so adamant that Cuthbert should be replaced by Bowe on that performance.
Dont get me wrong, I like Bowe, but thought Cuthbert had a good game, and scored a great try.
Guess it's just another case of 'anti-player' that several others get, no matter what they do.

 

[Groundhog]

I just think Bowe is a better player who probably would have filled the starting spot had he been fit. Don't have anything against the big man, he had a decent game, but he's not the player Bowe is when fit.

 

[big ginger 8]

Not sure why people are so adamant that Cuthbert should be replaced by Bowe on that performance.
Dont get me wrong, I like Bowe, but thought Cuthbert had a good game, and scored a great try.
Guess it's just another case of 'anti-player' that several others get, no matter what they do.

Ah he didn't really do that much did he? Dropped an easy high ball, jumped two metres before where the ball landed allowing Australia to counter and get points, contested a high ball not catching but it wasn't deemed a knock on and we launched an attack from it and scored a good try.

Those four things are all I can remember of his performance. He's a good player with a nose for the line but Bowe is a step above and also has a knack for scoring. Also there's that constant worry of what Ioane could do vs Cuthbert.

 

[profitius]

Well whatever about BOD being penalised, for Australias first try when the Lions were attacking, BOD jumped on the ball to secure it and about 5 players flopped over him for an Australian turnover. They broke down the field and scored. I've no problem with referees being strick with the breakdown but they need to be consistent.

 

[dullonien]

Bowe is a more rounded player, and a great finisher in his own right. But I wouldn't drop Cuthbert after his performance today. He's a lethal finisher if nothing else, probably the best finisher in the NH over the past couple of seasons. Still get a little worried when the Aussies moved the ball towards his wing today. Hopefully Cuthbert's had that slip-up, and he won't make another calamity in defence this tour, in the same way that he was excellent defensively for the remainder of the 6 nations after his slip-up against Ireland.

Regarding North. I didn't see the finger on first viewings, apologies. I still think it looked like he was going for a hand-off, then realised he was clear and stuck out a cheeky finger whilst getting caught up in the excitement. A little like Folau chucking the ball at a Lions player after scoring his first try. I find it a little different to Armitage blatantly waving at a defender, but that's probably bias, as well as the fact that North is a genuinely nice guy unlike Armitage.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Yeah, Bowe is simply better in most peoples minds.

 

[nealn]

Not sure why people are so adamant that Cuthbert should be replaced by Bowe on that performance.
Dont get me wrong, I like Bowe, but thought Cuthbert had a good game, and scored a great try.
Guess it's just another case of 'anti-player' that several others get, no matter what they do.

Personally I wouldn't mind Bowe replacing Cuthbert (as I just feel Bowe's experience could be useful) but at the same time wouldn't see it as an issue at all if Cuthbert retained his place and Bowe just replaced Maitland as Cuthbert had a good game. Depends if Gatland wants to go with the continuity of Cuthbert or the experience of Bowe. I can see benefits in both and personally would go with Bowe but am confident that the coaches are more likely to make the right call than I am!

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Bowe is a more rounded player, and a great finisher in his own right. But I wouldn't drop Cuthbert after his performance today. He's a lethal finisher if nothing else, probably the best finisher in the NH over the past couple of seasons. Still get a little worried when the Aussies moved the ball towards his wing today. Hopefully Cuthbert's had that slip-up, and he won't make another calamity in defence this tour, in the same way that he was excellent defensively for the remainder of the 6 nations after his slip-up against Ireland.

Regarding North. I didn't see the finger on first viewings, apologies. I still think it looked like he was going for a hand-off, then realised he was clear and stuck out a cheeky finger whilst getting caught up in the excitement. A little like Folau chucking the ball at a Lions player after scoring his first try. I find it a little different to Armitage blatantly waving at a defender, but that's probably bias, as well as the fact that North is a genuinely nice guy unlike Armitage.

I don't think The Lions work on the ideology that you have to play good enough not to be dropped but rather you have to play well enough to keep your spot and I don't think he did considering you have Bowe and even Zebo behind him who both suit playing the Aussies better due to being more skilled and Bowe is also a better overall rugby player.

 

[big ginger 8]

Bowe and Cuthbert both have reatively similar strike rates at international level with around 1 try every other game, with Bowe obviously playing more tests. Using this Cuhbert won't score in the next test so we shouldn't play him...

 

[Peat]

I agree, Croft did a decent amount of work in the tight, but did he do more than Lydiate would have for example? He was in the side primarily to add some extra pace to the pack, and take advantage of opportunities out wide, and he didn't fulfil that role today. His one opportunity out wide, he tried to do a little too much himself, and threw a poor basketball style pass to BOD which was deemed forward.

Maybe it would make more sense to start Lydiate and have Croft on the bench to impact the game late on?

Edit. Regarding BOD's turnovers. I first one I can understand why the ref penalised him, although most of the time I'd say that would be a penalty Lions way. The second one, he does everything right, and I couldn't believe the call.

A fair enough assessment. The only thing Croft did that Lydiate wouldn't - and probably the only reason he was on as long as he was - was take lots of lineout ball. And I would ask what would Lydiate have done that Croft didn't that we were missing? Croft put in a solid defensive performances and hit lots of rucks, which is what we'd have expected from Lydiate. Might have he done it better? Possible, but not nailed on. He might have done better with Croft's chance to give the overlap mind, he probably wouldn't have taken it on too long. But might not.

If Croft was on the team simply to add pace, then he should have been taken off the team the moment he developed that toe issue. But he was there to be a safe lineout option, to support the ball carrier, defend in midfield - and add pace when opportunities presented itself. He performed in 3 of the 4 things. I think this is where we disagree dull. Lydiate to start with Croft to come on? Not unless Croft is fit, and if Croft is fit, why not start him? Not to mention the lineout, which I think is key here. Youngs is completing his throws ok,but that's because they're all to the front. They're worrying about it, and as such, Croft is probably going to start. Right? Dunno, but as long as he accomplishes that and does his share of work in the tight - I think he's done what he's meant to. The wide carrying is gravy.

I also agree with jcahill1 that the forwards struggled to get traction going forwards, and that O'Brien might be the answer. Although, really, I'd be more than tempted to find out if Faletau can play 6 if that's what we're looking for.

 

[dullonien]

Bowe and Cuthbert both have reatively similar strike rates at international level with around 1 try every other game, with Bowe obviously playing more tests. Using this Cuhbert won't score in the next test so we shouldn't play him...

I admire your reasoning. Cuthbert -> Bowe -> Cuthbert (bringing Cuthbert on late in the game in the second test) guarantees a try be one in each game.

 

[big ginger 8]

Tuilagi is fit for Tuesday anyway.

 

[Rich Taff]

oh, i also thought that North's 'finger wag' could have been a bit of mind games, as JD2 was in support, so could have put doubt in Genia's mind about the tackle, thinking that a pass was coming. (the finger being part of telling JD2 to go under the posts).
I loved the 'even North couldnt hand someone off with one finger' comment though

 

[Rich Taff]

Bowe and Cuthbert both have reatively similar strike rates at international level with around 1 try every other game, with Bowe obviously playing more tests. Using this Cuhbert won't score in the next test so we shouldn't play him...

I like this reasoning aswell

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

GIFSoup

This is an example of a bad decison - Tackler does not release properly.