Examples of biased refereeing in World Cup knock out stages?

[Cookies]

The ***le of this thread is IMHO wrong. It should say "bad decisions made by referees" instead of "biased refereeing". Unless you have proofs of alleged corruption of a referee , which Im 100% sure nobody here has, this is defamation.

Australia 1998-2002 paid refs off. This is well established.

 

[smartcooky]

Australia 1998-2002 paid refs off. This is well established.

Well established by who?

Where is your evidence?

 

[Cookies]

Established by me. Evidence in my post above ^.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

Established by me. Evidence in my post above ^.

The only thing established after such post was your credibility. Or lack thereof.

 

[Cookies]

And your evidence of the refs not being paid off is ...

 

[PacDuran]

The missed forward pass wasn't the issue in 2007 (although it didn't help). The real issue was Barnes failure, time after time after time, to spot blatant offsides at the ruck and in the midfield. For the last 60 minutes of that match, New Zealand had 75% territory and 66% possession, and yet, depending on whose match analysis you read, Barnes missed between 22 and 45 penalisable infringements. If you believe Barnes, then the French, under enormous territorial pressure, did not infringe once in those last 60 minutes; they were not penalised once, not even a penalty advantage. Its not hard to understand why Graham Henry, after seeing the match analysis, thought there had been match fixing. The reality is that there wasn't. What had really happened is that Wayne Barnes was a very inexperienced referee (he only had two Tier 1 internationals under his belt at the beginning of the 2007 RWC. He was the RFU's "Golden Boy" of refereeing and they were determined to have him in there. Consequently, he was chucked in at the deep end, the most inexperienced referee to ever be appointed to a RWC knock-out game, and he froze under the pressure like a possum in the headlights.

Also, there had been a memo put out to referees prior to the tournament that the Touch Judges were not to call in anything to the referee other than foul play.

NOTE: They were Touch Judges at that stage; they didn't become Assistant Referees until 2008/09

However, NONE of the things I have listed above were the reasons we lost. They were contributing factors perhaps, but the real reason we lost because we did not have a plan for encountering a "Blind Freddy" referee. From about half way through the second half, it should have become apparent to the team leaders that Barnes was never going to penalise France. We were making territory quite easily with the ball in hand, we just kept battering a French defence that was prepared to infringe to stop us scoring a try, and were allowed to do so with impunity. They needed to take the game out of Barnes' hands, and into their own, and start turning that pressure into points by taking dropped goal attempts.

What worries me a bit now, is that we still don't appear to have learned that lesson. Carter, for all his skills as a kicker, is a lousy dropped goal taker. Do we have someone in the team who is really good at dropped goals? If we do, I can't think who that might be.

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It was Aurelian Rougerie not Harry Ordinary

How can you bring up Wayner Barnes missing all the French infringements and leave out Joubert missing a multitude of infringements by the AB's in 2011 that should have seen the cup rightfully go to France?

Both homecooking.

 

[smartcooky]

And your evidence of the refs not being paid off is ...

Err, it doesn't work like that. The burden of proof is on the person making the accusation

 

[smartcooky]

How can you bring up Wayner Barnes missing all the French infringements and leave out Joubert missing a multitude of infringements by the AB's in 2011 that should have seen the cup rightfully go to France?

Both homecooking.

Because

a. I was responding to a comment about the 2007 quarter-final, not the 2011 final

b. Joubert awarded four penalties to France in the second half of the 2011 final, two of which were kickable (either could have won France the game). Traille missed one from 40m right in front, and chose not to kick the other at goal. Also, Joubert missed an illegal turnover in midfield by a blatantly offside French player that directly resulted in Thierry Dusautoir's try. Accordingly I don't buy into northern hemisphere media Bo11ocks about Joubert supposedly refereeing badly in the 2011 final and costing France the game. They had plenty of 50/50 calls go their way in that match.

 

[PacDuran]

Because

a. I was responding to a comment about the 2007 quarter-final, not the 2011 final

b. Joubert awarded four penalties to France in the second half of the 2011 final, two of which were kickable (either could have won France the game). Traille missed one from 40m right in front, and chose not to kick the other at goal. Also, Joubert missed an illegal turnover in midfield by a blatantly offside French player that directly resulted in Thierry Dusautoir's try. Accordingly I don't buy into northern hemisphere media Bo11ocks about Joubert supposedly refereeing badly in the 2011 final and costing France the game. They had plenty of 50/50 calls go their way in that match.

Joubert's performance in my view was worse than Barnes whose poor performance in missing the worst forward pass in RWC history was mitigated slightly by Carter's pass for McAllister's break for his try also being forward. NZ were offside at ruck time nearly in every ruck. They knew they were in the process of getting away with murder but couldn't pull away due to terrible kicking and the fact they totally froze in the face of the French onslaught. Joubert outted himself with his failure to give a penalty when Kaino was offside off his feet with his hands all over the ball, then spilled the ball forward all in one instant, crazy. Such an obvious gift to NZ that RWC. It's nothing to do with hemisphere pride man (the concept of which is absolute buffoonery). It's just how I saw the game. I have far more reason to be biased against the French who have ****** all over Ireland's soul in crunch games many times. The 2011 RWC final stunk to high heaven. Joubert is a disgrace.

 

[smartcooky]

Joubert's performance in my view was worse than Barnes whose poor performance in missing the worst forward pass in RWC history was mitigated slightly by Carter's pass for McAllister's break for his try also being forward. NZ were offside at ruck time nearly in every ruck. They knew they were in the process of getting away with murder but couldn't pull away due to terrible kicking and the fact they totally froze in the face of the French onslaught. Joubert outted himself with his failure to give a penalty when Kaino was offside off his feet with his hands all over the ball, then spilled the ball forward all in one instant, crazy. Such an obvious gift to NZ that RWC. It's nothing to do with hemisphere pride man (the concept of which is absolute buffoonery). It's just how I saw the game. I have far more reason to be biased against the French who have ****** all over Ireland's soul in crunch games many times. The 2011 RWC final stunk to high heaven. Joubert is a disgrace.

You can con yourself into believing whatever you want. I don't really give a shít.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Come on guys, play nice! This thread is bordering on getting out of hand, and if it continues I will close it.

If you don't have proof of any accusation regarding to Corruption in Rugby, then don't make silly comments about it.

People will always have opinions about referees in matches, and sometimes its warranted like in 2011 QF when Bryce Lawrence admitted that he missed a couple of things, other times its not warranted and then you might get threads such as this, trying to stir the pot, which is IMHO unnecessary.

 

[PacDuran]

You can con yourself into believing whatever you want. I don't really give a shít.

Come on man. Just a difference of opinion. No need for us to get shirty.

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Come on guys, play nice! This thread is bordering on getting out of hand, and if it continues I will close it.

If you don't have proof of any accusation regarding to Corruption in Rugby, then don't make silly comments about it.

People will always have opinions about referees in matches, and sometimes its warranted like in 2011 QF when Bryce Lawrence admitted that he missed a couple of things, other times its not warranted and then you might get threads such as this, trying to stir the pot, which is IMHO unnecessary.

So discussion is allowed when South Africa got screwed over but when it's someone else we need to close our cake holes? lol

 

[wertas]

Because

a. I was responding to a comment about the 2007 quarter-final, not the 2011 final

b. Joubert awarded four penalties to France in the second half of the 2011 final, two of which were kickable (either could have won France the game). Traille missed one from 40m right in front, and chose not to kick the other at goal. Also, Joubert missed an illegal turnover in midfield by a blatantly offside French player that directly resulted in Thierry Dusautoir's try. Accordingly I don't buy into northern hemisphere media Bo11ocks about Joubert supposedly refereeing badly in the 2011 final and costing France the game. They had plenty of 50/50 calls go their way in that match.

It was not Traille, but Trinc-Duc.

 

[Dirty Ape]

I'm with smartcooky all the way here - the 2 cannot remotely be compared. I watched both matches multiple times with lots of slow motion and smartcooky's summaries pretty much line up with mine.

One other thing I would say - NZ has had this chokers tag over the years (unfairly in my opinion) but the game where I think we genuinely did choke more than any other match in World Cup history, is that 2011 final. Almost to a man (except McCaw) we froze and failed to get anywhere near any decent level of performance. That game took about a decade off my life and I felt very little joy at us becoming World Champions. That game just made me nauseous.

 

[OverGore]

the only one ever suspected Openly by players and/or federations, is Derek Bevan, for SouthAfrica France semi in 1995. Dream had to happen, wether it was usin stuff that sent a lot of this team in a wheel chair, and puttin abnormal pressure on ref. Then again, biased is a big word, abnormal pressure is more like it.

 

[Five Meters Out]

I'm with smartcooky all the way here - the 2 cannot remotely be compared. I watched both matches multiple times with lots of slow motion.

Gee Dirty Ape, watching that 2007 1/4 final multiple times??? That's flagellation if ever I heard it. I suppose you would know exactly how many chances the AB's had to snap a drop goal and win the match?

 

[Dirty Ape]

Gee Dirty Ape, watching that 2007 1/4 final multiple times??? That's flagellation if ever I heard it. I suppose you would know exactly how many chances the AB's had to snap a drop goal and win the match?

Yeah, masochism right?

Actually I watched it live in 2007 then didn't look at it again (even highlights) for a few years. Think it was just before the last world cup in 2011 I went back and watched it again twice in 2 days. I wanted to have an informed opinion on Barnes' performance.

It was disgusting. An utter disgrace.

But because NZ could have gone for more drop goals I guess it doesn't matter right? That's the point you're making isn't it? That a disgraceful, utterly one-sided refereeing performance is irrelevant if the ABs could potentially still have found a way to win?

So I guess we have to prepare for that scenario again. Gotta practice those drop kicks Dan and co just in case we get shafted by the officials again.

 

[InsaneAsylum]

Australia 1998-2002 paid refs off. This is well established.

New Zealand 2004-2015 paid refs off. This is well established.

not really, but anyone can make sweeping accusations is suppose

 

[smartcooky]

It was not Traille, but Trinc-Duc.

Thanks.

 

[smartcooky]

Gee Dirty Ape, watching that 2007 1/4 final multiple times??? That's flagellation if ever I heard it. I suppose you would know exactly how many chances the AB's had to snap a drop goal and win the match?

No, you see, that is the whole problem. They didn't have any chances (other than the desperate one from Luke McAlister at the end from near half way) because that never even set themselves up for it. The words "dropped goal" didn't enter their thinking until it was too late and they were too far away.