EPS and Saxons squads announced

[welshglory]

Here's a thing - who will be playing 8 for Northampton next season? I don't think they signed a replacement for Wilson and given they've got some very good 7s coming through, its possible they'll move Wood there... Dowson seems more likely, but he's not exactly a long term option. I think in the next couple of seasons, Wood will find himself at 6 or 8 most of the time.

A mix of Dowson, van Velze and Manoa i'd expect. I personally think Manoa's best position is either 6 or 8.

I'm not sure if Wood fits as an 8. I think he's more of a 6/7, doesn't really have the size to be an 8.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I couldn't see Wood making it as an 8, to be honest, especially not if he has international aspirations.
Manoa has played there a few times this season, hasn't he? I imagine they'll rotate between him and Dowson, to train him up.

 

[welshglory]

You're copying me again Olyy

 

[Peat]

I couldn't see Wood making it as an 8, to be honest, especially not if he has international aspirations.
Manoa has played there a few times this season, hasn't he? I imagine they'll rotate between him and Dowson, to train him up.

Really? I'd say it was the easiest shirt in the back-row to get into at the moment and for the foreseeable future.

edit: As for size, don't see too much to pick between him and Kieran Read...

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I'd say "inspired by", rather than copied. This time I actually read your post first :lol:

Really? I'd say it was the easiest shirt in the back-row to get into at the moment and for the foreseeable future.

I dunno, I can't see it.
I think with Morgan and then Waldrom as our 8s Lancaster wants a big crash ball type guy there. While we don't see to have a nailed on starter for 8 I can't see Wood overtaking either of those while still learning to be an 8, and by the time he has a season or so under his belt Morgan could well have the shirt for his own.

 

[welshglory]

Wood played 8 for Worcester a few times didn't he?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

For what it's worth Wikipedia says he can play 8.
Can't ever recall seeing him there, though.

 

[Peat]

I dunno, I can't see it.
I think with Morgan and then Waldrom as our 8s Lancaster wants a big crash ball type guy there. While we don't see to have a nailed on starter for 8 I can't see Wood overtaking either of those while still learning to be an 8, and by the time he has a season or so under his belt Morgan could well have the shirt for his own.

You see, I think he just wants someone who can play 8. You've named just about the only two fit English 8s going at the time - it's not like he had a choice about style. Even with everyone fit, Crane's squabbling with Waldrom over the shirt at Leicester and, uhm.... oh yeah, he doesn't like Nick Easter... Narraway's gone to France... Fearns has gone to 7, as has Sam Jones... Vunipola and Gray are still struggling to nail down first team berths... Baxter's ancient... Dowson's already been tried and looked mediocre. Wood is a proven international who Lancaster rates highly, if he was playing 8 I'm sure he'd be looked at. The Dowson incident shows that Lancaster's very willing to look at workhorses at 8 anyway. I also don't think it would take Wood very long to learn 8 - it's not a position he's played before very much, but he's a very committed and intelligent player who's comfortable ball in hand, so I reckon it shouldn't take him too long.

Meanwhile at 6 we have an epic logjam; Robshaw has a good hold on the 7 jersey and the Saxons squad contains three promising would be 7s in Gibson, Fearns and Kvesic. Not to mention I feel very confident in predicting that Nutley or Harrison will be Saints' openside of choice within the next couple of years.

If I was a top flight English back-rower at the moment, I'd be screaming at my coach to play me at 8.

 

[mstar]

problem is we dont have many big ball carriers to play international level as neither robshaw or wood are known for that type of game. Domestically they can probably get away with it but internationally we a bit lightweight in the 6 and 7 department. Haskell in the 3rd test gave us some more physicality.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I think part of the reason is we are missing a bog ball carrying lock. Both/ Parking/ Palmer neither offer that role. I know Lawes is in the squad but out of his game his carrying is by far his weakest area (martin Johnson originally asked him to work on that).

I we had that other option of the lock carrying the ball their wouldn't be so much pressure on the backrow.

I think we might end up seeing

6. Robshaw
7. Wood
8. Morgan

With a ball carrying lock to help out we look sorted. I know i have moved Robshaw but i always got the impression Lancaster would move him him he find his perfect 7, well thats what i thought.

As for carrying locks, none being in the EPS is worrying. Infact Lock looks weak throughout the country. Launchberry is playing 6 a lot, garvey isn't even in the saxons or attwood. Then you have Kritchner who looked very average to me (not a big enforcer type player) and Robson and gaskell who arn't really great.

A shortage of locks!

 

[Peat]

Very valid point there both about the lack and omission of ball-carrying locks. I'm beginning to think that Lancaster caught Garvey shagging Lancaster's missus in his car. And he caught them, Garvey paniced and drove off, running over Lancaster's dog in the process.

 

[mstar]

i agree we lack a enforcer type of Lock everyone things Lawes will be the answer BUT
for all his strengths Lawes isn't a great ball handling/carrying (his hand control in the 6N against wales for example). Our locks have different strengths and weaknesses it be interesting to see who lancaster picks
if everyone is fit. But for my mind my first choice would be Lawes. Botha and Palmer had their chances lets see what Lawes can do. BIG season for Lawes and Wood it could make or break their England career for this or and next year.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

i agree we lack a enforcer type of Lock everyone things Lawes will be the answer BUT
for all his strengths Lawes isn't a great ball handling/carrying (his hand control in the 6N against wales for example). Our locks have different strengths and weaknesses it be interesting to see who lancaster picks
if everyone is fit. But for my mind my first choice would be Lawes. Botha and Palmer had their chances lets see what Lawes can do. BIG season for Lawes and Wood it could make or break their England career for this or and next year.

Lawes is the enforcer in the defence role but his handling and contact skills are very bad. He has a lot to work on in that aspect but maybe with his extended time off he has been. he wasn't ready to be brought back in for the wales game and it showed. Lawes is a very good rugby player but he has a few things to work on like most rugby players.

The question is, is he the enforcer England need or will that role be filled by

Saxons:
Deacon - No way
Launchberry - possibly don't know if he is physical enough
Kritchner - Will the tigers add some bite to his play. He looked really average in SA
Robson - Lineout player
Gaskell - No way near physical enough to play 4 or 5

Then Garvey, Attwood, Charlie Mathews are all not in the EPS. I guess the above are rated higher.

 

[mstar]

I think Lancaster will stick with Botha or Palmer until Lawes proves himself to Lancaster. Lancaster is known to want players to prove to him they have been working on their weakness of the their game.

BTW Not much lawes can do with his ball handling skills as he been out so long in FACT i expect him to be rusty before he gets to a level he can go straight into the starting side for the tests.

 

[Teh Mite]

That theory breaks down regarding Botha: he's only shown himself up as below par in the chances given so far.

Same should be said of Mike Brown.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

It wouldn't matter as much that our locks are pretty lightweight if we had a big guy on the flank.
Fearns and Haskell have both been dropped down to the Saxons so we don't have any hard hitting 6 (or 7....though neither are) meaning our #8 has to do the hitting/carrying of the entire backrow/2nd row.

Nothing against Robshaw/Wood/Croft/Johnson as they're all great players, but really should be partnered with a brute, rather than another lightweight guy (Robshaw can play like a hard hitting #6, but is getting better and better at getting stuck in at the breakdown - though if he ends up partnered with Wood then he won't need to, as much).

 

[Gaunt15]

i believe Launchbury would be physical enough, i see him as an effective grafter and decent ball carrier if Lawes is mostly injured id like to see him fill in rather than possibly the likes of Deacon

 

[Gaunt15]

also charlie matthews has (i think) quite a long term injury so we wont be seeing him very soon

 

[j'nuh]

I don't think anyone's said this, but I reckon that there's no real meaning to this squad announcement. There was no build up to it, no big interviews about the selections, and the next international fixture is still in 4 months. When the AIs come around, Lancaster will pick another squad from the EPS and Saxons judged on the start of season form. (And Haskell will probably be in it.)

If this is the case, the main gripe I have is: what on earth does Nick Wood have to do to get anywhere near England!? He was the only prop to be nominated for player of the year last season, but he doesn't even make the Saxons? It might be said that he's quite old, but he's still younger (and a lot better) than Matt Stevens.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I think Ben youngs is a better prop than Mat Stevens! Don't rate him at all.

No idea why Nick Wood is left out? Maybe a weakness to his game that we don't see but coaches look at?

On the subject of Lawes, its not his handling skills but more his body position going into to contact with the ball. On defence its great but on attack he knocks on or gets turned over too easily, he needs to work on getting into the right angle and dropping the shoulder like other taller locks do.

On the Brown topic i really thought Goode outplayed Brown, even in his little cameo he looked more composed and a better player, i'd like to see him as our utility back for a while as he can cover a load of positions.

Botha was not international level at all. Hopefulling (as he was dropped) Lancaster will keep Palmer and Parling and then introduce Lawes (if he is ready)

I can't believe i have to wait till September for some more Rugby!!!!!!!!!