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EOYT: Wales vs New Zealand, 24/11/2012

Pretty good game,

for the AB's I thought the top performers were the forwards in particular numbers 4 through 7 all basically 8-9/10 performances. Read missed an uncharacteristic number of tackles but was pretty good otherwise

As pointed out by Justin Marshal at the time the gap between the two sides was most clear when you compare the catch and Pass Owen Franks made in the lead up to Messams try to a similar situation later in the game when a welsh prop had to do the same and totally stuffed it up. Franks Pass was not just a basic shovel on it was a long accurate pass any inside center would be happy with. His opposite in the same situation never looked like he could do it.

Cruden was very solid, his goal kicking has been pretty special this year, he does lack a bit of range only just sneaking one over from 44m but I don't remember seeing a kicker so accurate within his range, Even Dan Carter misses the odd one you would expect to get in his range, I think I can only remember 1 kick this year Cruden has missed that I expected him to get, he's such a smart and cool headed player. Definitely worthy of note, his kicking around the field was also accurate. Defense and running game was a bit below par for him but he is carrying an injury.

Nonu had a better running game and Smith was good as always. Dagg accurate with one moment of absolute epic brilliance when he beat ~4 defenders and offloaded to start a movement that ended in a try, Savea very good, a couple of blunders on defense but otherwise exceptional. Not such a good game for Cory Jane.

I see a pattern emerging with the AB's where for long periods in games it's quiet even but the AB's will dominate 15-30min of a game and that will be the difference, and it's not always the last 15-30min of the game, this is the 2nd game this year where it's been the first half.
 
New Zealand Player Ratings:

1. Tony Woodcock - 7 - strong scrummaging, got around the field with tackles and carries and claimed a replica of his world cup final try.
2. Andrew Hore - 5 - was strong at the breakdown found his man at lineouts. Won't play again this tour though after a disgraceful cheap shot on Bradley Davies
3. Owen Franks - 7 - he works so hard, making loads of tackles and was excellent at scrum time.
4. Luke Romano - 7 - top performance by Romano, made some great carries, tackled well, was the key lineout jumper and claimed a deserved try. Good shift.
5. Sam Whitelock - 7 - hard working lock is Whitelock. Made a good steal in the first half, lots of tackles and carries and took three lineouts.
6. Liam Messam - 7 - carried hard, lots of physical tackles and claimed a deserved try.
7. Richie McCaw - 8 - top captain's knock. Topped the tackle count, albeit with 4 misses. Carried well, disrupted the breakdown. Would not have given him man of the match however.
8. Kieran Read - 4 - probably his worst display in an All Black jersey this year. Carried like usual but missed 6 tackles which was out of character.
9. Aaron Smith - 6 - he has a terrific pass, made some good tackles. Suspect box kicking though. The difference was noticeable when he left the field.
10. Aaron Cruden - 9 - my man of the match. Kicked superbly both tactically and for the posts. Got the backline running excellently and made all his tackles. Scary to think New Zealand probably have the 3 of the 5 best fly halves in the world at the moment (up for debate) in Carter, Cruden and Nick Evans.
11. Julian Savea - 7 - suspect under the high ball at times but boy he is an outstanding runner! Caused problems for Wales all day. Made all his tackles.
12. Ma'a Nonu - 7 - made all his tackles, put pressure on at the breakdown, ran and distributed excellently.
13. Conrad Smith - 8 - the guy is flawless. No missed tackles, impeccable skills and running lines. Like an openside flanker in the backline at the breakdown. Superb.
14. Cory Jane - 4 - not a great display by Jane. Unusually suspect under the high ball and gave away a yellow card for a deliberate knock. Didn't cause much havoc for the Welsh defence either.
15. Israel Dagg - 7 - kicked well out of hand, was a threat on attack as well. Made all his tackles.

BENCH
16. Dan Cole - 5 - carried solidly, made all his tackles and hit all his jumpers.
17. Wyatt Crockett - 5 - continued what Woodcock started with strong scrummaging. Made his tackles.
18. Charlie Faumuina - 4 - strong scrummaging when he came on. Didn't add much in general play and conceded 2 penalties.
19. Brodie Retallick - 4 - tackled well, took a lineout. Not quite the impact that Romano had however.
20. Victor Vito - no rating - wasn't on for long but looked hungry for work. Fished for turnovers and continued what Messam started.
21. Piri Weepu - 3 - very average with his passing. Tackled well. Could be coming to the end of his test career, with Kerr-Barlow and next year Perenara pushing him hard.
22. Beauden Barrett - no rating - wasn't on for long. Dropped a poor pass from Weepu.
23. Ben Smith - no rating.

Overall I think they are very good ratings. I will note that the AB's had Dane Coles playing in the 16 jersey (Dan Cole was playing for England) :D I've been happy with Coles performances in his limited game-time for the AB's thus far - he could well be starting against England next week with Hore almost certainly gone and Mealamu in doubt. I still have concerns about Coles's discipline, but hopefully he has sorted that out.

Aaron Cruden was man of the match for me too - I'm surprised how little credit he has been given for his performance (probably his most complete performance at test level). I think he showed the benefit of actually getting 2 weeks of rugby in a row (after his start last week vs Italy). It looks like he will start next week versus England too (as I see Tom Taylor has been called up to cover Carter), so should get another chance to establish himself as a test player.

As for Wales:
- I like the look of Shingler, though I wonder whether he needs to put on a few more kgs. Obviously you don't want him to lose his natural athleticism, but I think he could afford gain a bit of weight as he did look pretty slim (though he is tall). It was good to see Faletau playing well again.
- I thought Knoyle made a good impact when he came on. Phillips has many good qualities but I thought he was a bit slow to the breakdown at times, and his service was a bit laboured too.
- Priestland. Hmmm....
- Cuthbert looked good with ball in hand, but some of defense was a bit weak - there are no excuses for someone his size to get brushed off so easily. Clearly it is an area he needs to work-on (perhaps a few tips from Liam Williams wouldn't go astray, as he tackled like a mad-man).
 
Just watched that lineout again. ****ing hilarious.
I love Knoyle in the normal SH position. Who was he going to pass to if he got it?
.

I think his job was to run for his life if the all blacks won the line out. :p
 
New Zealand Player Ratings:

1. Tony Woodcock - 7 - strong scrummaging, got around the field with tackles and carries and claimed a replica of his world cup final try.
2. Andrew Hore - 5 - was strong at the breakdown found his man at lineouts. Won't play again this tour though after a disgraceful cheap shot on Bradley Davies
3. Owen Franks - 7 - he works so hard, making loads of tackles and was excellent at scrum time.
4. Luke Romano - 7 - top performance by Romano, made some great carries, tackled well, was the key lineout jumper and claimed a deserved try. Good shift.
5. Sam Whitelock - 7 - hard working lock is Whitelock. Made a good steal in the first half, lots of tackles and carries and took three lineouts.
6. Liam Messam - 7 - carried hard, lots of physical tackles and claimed a deserved try.
7. Richie McCaw - 8 - top captain's knock. Topped the tackle count, albeit with 4 misses. Carried well, disrupted the breakdown. Would not have given him man of the match however.
8. Kieran Read - 4 - probably his worst display in an All Black jersey this year. Carried like usual but missed 6 tackles which was out of character.
9. Aaron Smith - 6 - he has a terrific pass, made some good tackles. Suspect box kicking though. The difference was noticeable when he left the field.
10. Aaron Cruden - 9 - my man of the match. Kicked superbly both tactically and for the posts. Got the backline running excellently and made all his tackles. Scary to think New Zealand probably have the 3 of the 5 best fly halves in the world at the moment (up for debate) in Carter, Cruden and Nick Evans.
11. Julian Savea - 7 - suspect under the high ball at times but boy he is an outstanding runner! Caused problems for Wales all day. Made all his tackles.
12. Ma'a Nonu - 7 - made all his tackles, put pressure on at the breakdown, ran and distributed excellently.
13. Conrad Smith - 8 - the guy is flawless. No missed tackles, impeccable skills and running lines. Like an openside flanker in the backline at the breakdown. Superb.
14. Cory Jane - 4 - not a great display by Jane. Unusually suspect under the high ball and gave away a yellow card for a deliberate knock. Didn't cause much havoc for the Welsh defence either.
15. Israel Dagg - 7 - kicked well out of hand, was a threat on attack as well. Made all his tackles.

BENCH
16. Dan Cole - 5 - carried solidly, made all his tackles and hit all his jumpers.
17. Wyatt Crockett - 5 - continued what Woodcock started with strong scrummaging. Made his tackles.
18. Charlie Faumuina - 4 - strong scrummaging when he came on. Didn't add much in general play and conceded 2 penalties.
19. Brodie Retallick - 4 - tackled well, took a lineout. Not quite the impact that Romano had however.
20. Victor Vito - no rating - wasn't on for long but looked hungry for work. Fished for turnovers and continued what Messam started.
21. Piri Weepu - 3 - very average with his passing. Tackled well. Could be coming to the end of his test career, with Kerr-Barlow and next year Perenara pushing him hard.
22. Beauden Barrett - no rating - wasn't on for long. Dropped a poor pass from Weepu.
23. Ben Smith - no rating.

yeah good ratings, though as for Hore if not for the bad shot I would have given him a 7-8 he had a very good game. but because of the shot he basically deserves a 0

And Cruden actually missed two tackles and got pushed around a bit on defense, but still I agree he was worthy of man of the match considering he was clearly the target of the welsh ball runners and had quite a high tackle count overall. Talk about a goal kicking clinic. Most shots were straight forward but he put a massive exclamation point on the performance with the one kick from the sideline. Astonishing turn around considering Cruden was in the All Blacks last year basically as a non goal kicking 10. Put England on notice that's for sure, as someone else stated NZ are in a purple patch for first fives. Barrett is not far off Crudens accuracy and has a bit more Range and Tom Taylor who was just called into the squad is a dead set ~90% kicker. Just Became the 4-5th player in NZ history to score over 300 points in first class Rugby in a calendar year. The other three guys were All Blacks (Carter, Donald and Blair for sure and I think mehrtens as well?)

Read and Cory Jane - just proves that even the best players in the world have bad days, lucky for most players it happens when the All Blacks still win (weepu got bloody lucky in that final). "Generally" the NZ public go bananas when a player has a bad day for a loss....
 
Its very unfortunate that for all the good rugby played over the weekend.. Hores disgusting attack on another player, who was hospitalized, is the only real talking point.
 
Its very unfortunate that for all the good rugby played over the weekend.. Hores disgusting attack on another player, who was hospitalized, is the only real talking point.

Any real need to bring this up again given you started a whole thread on it? This thread has quite a lot of talking points other than that, so I can only assume you are trying to rattle the cage again?
 
Any real need to bring this up again given you started a whole thread on it? This thread has quite a lot of talking points other than that, so I can only assume you are trying to rattle the cage again?

Yep - all Kovana ever does it try and troll kiwis.
 
Pretty good game,
As pointed out by Justin Marshal at the time the gap between the two sides was most clear when you compare the catch and Pass Owen Franks made in the lead up to Messams try to a similar situation later in the game when a welsh prop had to do the same and totally stuffed it up. Franks Pass was not just a basic shovel on it was a long accurate pass any inside center would be happy with. His opposite in the same situation never looked like he could do it.

What was impressive was that the pass was the dreaded left to right side pass...the unnatural side...and it wasn't just Franks that was passing that way.
 
What I don't get though is that about two months ago a NZ school XV called Lindisfarne I think (where people like Isreal Dagg & Taine Randell went) and played a few schools in Northern Ireland and I think a few down south. I'm pretty sure they lost every single match - I know our school beat them by around 13 points. I heard they got hammered down south by one of the Dublin schools.

Now it could be this school just wasn't as good in terms of rugby compared to other schools in NZ, but how does this happen and yet it doesn't take a genius to notice the difference in quality in the national teams?
Japan has secondary schools that are the match of the best rugby schools in the world...yet that is not seen at international level. It is a bit of a mystery why at school level teams around the world can be even when at international level the gap is quite big.
 
Perhaps it's a difference in club rugby? The Air New Zealand Cup must just about be the best national competition in the world.
 
Perhaps it's a difference in club rugby? The Air New Zealand Cup must just about be the best national competition in the world.

It's now the ITM Cup. Don't know if I'd say it's the best national competition in the world. The Currie Cup (because it has internationals playing regularly - with five times pretty much being Super Rugby teams), Aviva Premiership and Top 14 would all likely be of a higher standard. But the way in which it offers exposure to professional rugby and development I think it certainly has to be right up there - at least for what is essentially the third teir of rugby in NZ.
 
Wales update

Wales' selectors have delayed announcing the team for their final Dove Men Series clash, against Australia at the Millennium Stadium this Saturday (2.30pm), by 48 hours until 1.00pm on Thursday due to ongoing injury concerns.

Ospreys prop Aaron Jarvis has been ruled out of the Wallabies game after damaging knee ligaments during the 33-10 loss to World Champions New Zealand last weekend.

Jarvis will undergo further consultations this afternoon with a view to determining the need for surgery.

Blues lock Bradley Davies is back in the Wales camp after spending some time in hospital on Saturday night. He is recovering from severe concussion and following the appropriate return to play protocols. He is not training today but it is still too soon to reach any further conclusions.

There are a number of other bumps and bruises throughout the squad and a further six players currently on the injury list who will benefit from the extra time offered by the delayed team announcement in order to put themselves in contention for selection.

Blues centre Jamie Roberts will not train in the early part of the week and remains stiff and sore after leaving the field with a hip injury early on in the All Blacks game.

Ospreys back row Ryan Jones has stitches in a head wound and will also take a limited part until the latter stages of the training week.

The other three players are managing injuries picked up earlier in the campaign â€" Ospreys fly half Dan Biggar (shoulder) will resume some rugby training this afternoon, he is not yet ready to take contact but is hoping to be in contention this later in the week.

Fellow Osprey Ian Evans (knee) will undergo a fitness test this afternoon with a view to resuming full training.

Finally, Scarlets wing George North (hip) is continuing his rehab and also, at this moment, remains in contention to return at the weekend.

Blues lock Lou Reed has been made a full squad member after ‘training with’ the team last week. Paul James (Bath) and James Hook (Perpignan) have returned to their respective clubs, but Luke Charteris (Perpignan), Gethin Jenkins (Toulon) and Mike Phillips (Bayonne) have all remained with Wales.
 
And felt sorry for Davis obvious cheap shot which I feel had a bigger impact on the game then people are recognizing as we lacked a lot of bulk in he scrums and rucks[/QUOTE]

Well now Mr Davies knows what it's like to take a cheap shot! You all have short term memories my Welsh cousins!

Did Bradley Davies not tip tackle/spear Stephen Ferris into the ground at the Aviva last year? I think so!!! Should have walked and no argument!

So please stop your bleating about cheap shots this and that! It stinks of hyprocrisy!!!
 
And felt sorry for Davis obvious cheap shot which I feel had a bigger impact on the game then people are recognizing as we lacked a lot of bulk in he scrums and rucks

Well now Mr Davies knows what it's like to take a cheap shot! You all have short term memories my Welsh cousins!

Did Bradley Davies not tip tackle/spear Stephen Ferris into the ground at the Aviva last year? I think so!!! Should have walked and no argument!

So please stop your bleating about cheap shots this and that! It stinks of hyprocrisy!!![/QUOTE]

No it doesn't, as nobody thinks his tip tackle was a good thing.
Saying he deserved this is just ridiculous.
Stop stirring.

Sent from my HTC Incredible S using Tapatalk 2
 
Boys I will make this clear, anymore blatant trolling then posts will get deleted. If you cannot / will not discuss it in an adult manner then do not do so.

Thank you.
 
I will admit I dispised Bradley Davies after his horrific tip tackle on Donnacha Ryan, but that doesn't justify what happened to him - and to say he deserved it is even more ridiculous and the Welsh have every right to be angry at this. So really don't talk shite 'Erin go Bragh'.
 
I said this in the Argentina game and I'll say it again, Wales really need a good number 10, not to pin all the blame on Priestland but he's not helping the situation.
 
So we could be looking at: Halfpenny, Cuthbert, Davies, Beck/Roberts, North/Williams, Priestland, Phillips; Jenkins, Rees, Andrews, Charteris, Shingler/Evans, Jones/Tipuric, Warburton, Faletau; Owens, Bevington, Lee, Reed, Tipuric/McCusker, Knoyle, Biggar/?, WilliamsS/WilliamsL
 

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