EOYT: Wales vs New Zealand, 24/11/2012

[austingtir]

A strike to the head can easily be lethal though even if not intended. Being PC and limiting the potential for tragedy aren't the same thing.

Captain obvious strikes again.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Captain obvious strikes again.

If my response is so obvious (which it is) then WTF were you on about though?

 

[austingtir]

If my response is so obvious (which it is) then WTF were you on about though?

Have you watched the additional replay of why hore laid the welshman out? He ran a line right across to the far side of where the ruck would form purposely to disrupt hore's clean out. If he had run the correct angle not impeding hore and joined from the correct side of where the ruck was about to form he would of remembered the first few minutes of the match but instead he decided to act the fool and got his clock cleaned. Im not going to argue weather its dangerous or whatever as i honestly couldnt care less.

Heres the footage.... welsh comies biased much.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qN2PTQ_Utjs

 

[nickdnz]

^

Not really an excuse. People use "Well McCaw deserves it by lying all over the ball etc" - and justifying foul play in that regard I think is wrong. A push out of the way would have surficed, or even milking a penalty.

I will say it's amazing how much people love a foul play by a kwi though - certainly a different standard than they hold their own players.

 

[austingtir]

^

Not really an excuse. People use "Well McCaw deserves it by lying all over the ball etc" - and justifying foul play in that regard I think is wrong. A push out of the way would have surficed, or even milking a penalty.

I will say it's amazing how much people love a foul play by a kwi though - certainly a different standard than they hold their own players.

Yes but the Aussies were complaining about this tactic by the welsh when they played them. The welsh are intent on obstructing other players getting to the next ruck rather than being positive. When you have players doing this in a game and im sure the AB's studied the tapes and saw this im sure they were instructed not to put up with it.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I will say it's amazing how much people love a foul play by a kwi though - certainly a different standard than they hold their own players.

I think it's true and quite natural; NZ are on top and the top teams/players will always be held under a microscope. In the same breath I feel players playing for SA, Aus, England etc are looked at more closely than someone from say Fiji or Georgia; higher profile translates to more scrutiny.

Have you watched the additional replay of why hore laid the welshman out? He ran a line right across to the far side of where the ruck would form purposely to disrupt hore's clean out. If he had run the correct angle not impeding hore and joined from the correct side of where the ruck was about to form he would of remembered the first few minutes of the match but instead he decided to act the fool and got his clock cleaned. Im not going to argue weather its dangerous or whatever as i honestly couldnt care less.

Heres the footage.... welsh comies biased much.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qN2PTQ_Utjs

Bakkies played the man ahead of the ball in order to 'intimidate' particularly in the latter stages of his carreer. Is that also an excuse for foul play?

 

[austingtir]

I think it's true and quite natural; NZ are on top and the top teams/players will always be held under a microscope. In the same breath I feel players playing for SA, Aus, England etc are looked at more closely than someone from say Fiji or Georgia; higher profile translates to more scrutiny.



Bakkies played the man ahead of the ball in order to 'intimidate' particularly in the latter stages of his carreer. Is that also an excuse for foul play?

Well if Bakkies got knocked out for doing that then im sure he wouldnt complain just like we havent heard anything from mister Davies. Even though he was looking a bit stunned mullet when he got up im sure after he's watched the footage he'll be like oh yeah i probably deserved that.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Yeah I agree these players wouldn't whine about getting sorted but what I'm trying to say is one can't afford to justify dangerous play as there is just too much of a bigger picture to look at ITO development of the game, perceptions etc which influence young players taking up the game and sponsorships etc etc so even if there is a bit of romance in 'dealing' with opposition that are playing beyond the fringes of the law and getting away with it, (the potential for serious injury aside) there are good reasons for players not to take the law into their own hands.

 

[kovana]

Ok, so i guess Bakkies was just retaliating against Jimmy Cowan a few tests ago when Jimmy was holding back Bakkies?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aO12nItzYdw

Since it seems some here are using the 'since it happened to x player, its ok if x player from different nations gets attacked as well' excuse.

 

[austingtir]

Ok, so i guess Bakkies was just retaliating against Jimmy Cowan a few tests ago when Jimmy was holding back Bakkies?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aO12nItzYdw

Since it seems some here are using the 'since it happened to x player, its ok if x player from different nations gets attacked as well' excuse.

I never had any problem with that i actually thought that particular one was hilarious. Your on a random goose chase mate.

 

[austingtir]

Yeah I agree these players wouldn't whine about getting sorted but what I'm trying to say is one can't afford to justify dangerous play as there is just too much of a bigger picture to look at ITO development of the game, perceptions etc which influence young players taking up the game and sponsorships etc etc so even if there is a bit of romance in 'dealing' with opposition that are playing beyond the fringes of the law and getting away with it, (the potential for serious injury aside) there are good reasons for players not to take the law into their own hands.

PC we've heard it all. There are good reasons to take the law into their own hands aswell. Again not really worth arguing that rubbish.

 

[Helmy]

Is this real life? The New Zealand media are just as guilty of scaremongering as the British media, the way they're over-hyping the reaction over there. Both deserve to be observed with a pinch of salt. And tbh, I don't know what's being said over there is that wide of the mark. There is no excuse for what Hore did, especially not pathetic *** for tat crap that pre-schoolers would be embarrassed of. The intent was obvious, this tell-tale 'angle' is probably a situation that occurs multiple times in a game, but isn't pointed out because it doesn't usually prelude a swinging arm.

It's just as much a storm in a tea cup as the Thomson affair, at the end of the day, neither side is going to be happy with the outcome. The fact that this is being discussed to death is exactly what the media want.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

How dare Bradley Davies run near Andrew Hore.
Got off lightly, imo.
Dirty commies*.



*Since when were the Welsh commies? Is it because they wear red? Hee-lair-ee-us.

 

[nickdnz]

Okay this is getting silly.

3:15 in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1b4wHF_tqQ is Cian Healy punching McCaw in the back of the head while he is on the ground. No one noticed it or cares. No one is saying 'Ireland mustbe very embarrised and their reputation is ruined'. Yes it was bad - yes it was missed and should have got a ban (like Cian Healy should have). My point being is that one is talked to death and one isn't - and that's just because of the jersey worn. Wales are hardly innocent of this either - but hearing some of the comments it seems like it's the worst incident on a rugby field ever. Kovana - Samoa are probably the most ill disciplined team in international rugby - people who live in glass houses. Obviously it's not okay and should be punished, but let's not make an off the ball incident which was stupid and dangerous - into the biggest travesty in sporting history. If I'm hearing about this in 7 years like the Lions Tour of 2005 - I'm ganna go mental.

 

[dullonien]

Have you watched the additional replay of why hore laid the welshman out? He ran a line right across to the far side of where the ruck would form purposely to disrupt hore's clean out. If he had run the correct angle not impeding hore and joined from the correct side of where the ruck was about to form he would of remembered the first few minutes of the match but instead he decided to act the fool and got his clock cleaned. Im not going to argue weather its dangerous or whatever as i honestly couldnt care less.

Heres the footage.... welsh comies biased much.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qN2PTQ_Utjs

:lol: Think I've heard it all now! A player deserves to be knocked out for running in the wrong place. The ruck wasn't even formed yet, he can run wherever he wants. I'm sure Davies was running there on purpose, but that happens all the time. Maybe next time, someone will forearm his opponent in the face for being offside in midfield. Maybe Jane deserved to be knocked out for intentionally knocking the ball on, after all that actually stopped a try, what did Davies do, slightly hinder Hore from getting to a yet to be formed ruck?

Honestly, I'm not even annoyed by your posts austingtir. They are just too damn funny!

 

[UlsterRugby2012]

Okay this is getting silly.

3:15 in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1b4wHF_tqQ is Cian Healy punching McCaw in the back of the head while he is on the ground. No one noticed it or cares. No one is saying 'Ireland mustbe very embarrised and their reputation is ruined'. Yes it was bad - yes it was missed and should have got a ban (like Cian Healy should have). My point being is that one is talked to death and one isn't - and that's just because of the jersey worn. Wales are hardly innocent of this either - but hearing some of the comments it seems like it's the worst incident on a rugby field ever. Kovana - Samoa are probably the most ill disciplined team in international rugby - people who live in glass houses. Obviously it's not okay and should be punished, but let's not make an off the ball incident which was stupid and dangerous - into the biggest travesty in sporting history. If I'm hearing about this in 7 years like the Lions Tour of 2005 - I'm ganna go mental.

Well first I think that's because that's the first time including myself most of us have seen that.
Second, McCaw is on the wrong side of the ruck, and he's obviously provoked the action because you can see Healy, Kearney and I think Ryan all look over at him as if he has done something cynical. The referee saw what Healy did and thought it was obviously justified. Punches and knees are swung all the time in rucks - knocked out from behind while retreating is completely different.

 

[nickdnz]

Well first I think that's because that's the first time including myself most of us have seen that.
Second, McCaw is on the wrong side of the ruck, and he's obviously provoked the action because you can see Healy, Kearney and I think Ryan all look over at him as if he has done something cynical. The referee saw what Healy did and thought it was obviously justified. Punches and knees are swung all the time in rucks - knocked out from behind while retreating is completely different.

Interesting. You've done me there. Hitting someone on the wrong side of the ruck while he's defenseless on the ground, for looking like he's done something cynical is obviously justified. Punching a guy for obstruction (which is cynical), on the wrong side of the ruck while standing is different. The one not involving the team that isn't the All Blacks is justified. The one with it is completely different. Thanks for clearing that up. Punching someone with his back turned is thuggary, punching someone one the ground is justified. It all makes sense now. Thanks for clearing that up - I couldn't have hope for a post that would demonstrate my point less.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Well first I think that's because that's the first time including myself most of us have seen that.
Second, McCaw is on the wrong side of the ruck, and he's obviously provoked the action because you can see Healy, Kearney and I think Ryan all look over at him as if he has done something cynical. The referee saw what Healy did and thought it was obviously justified. Punches and knees are swung all the time in rucks - knocked out from behind while retreating is completely different.

That's just as bad as Austngr's post and probably even worse as he at least doesn't deny the potential for serious injury being there; he just does not care whereas you're being slightly delusional.

 

[UlsterRugby2012]

I really don't think it was as bad as the video made it look.. & I'm really not saying he should have done it, he should have been cited, but come on, there's always punches thrown in rucks. I said the referee obviously thought so, I personally don't think it was justified - he was looking right at it.
I'm pretty sure Healy didn't hit him for no reason, but yes I agree more should have been done about it.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Boys seriosuly wise up.

The guy justyfing Hore's action. Stop and think before you post again.

Also Nick, really? I expected better from you. Really going to play the 'When it happens to a NZ nothing is said' and 'When a NZ does it there is more fuss' cards? It doesn't matter the players nationality, the fact remains Hore's actions were dangerous and led to a player spending a night in hospital because of it. I would be equally in uproar if it was a Welsh player who had done it to a NZ player.



If the nonsense carries on, and stupid stuff said then the thread will be locked. If you condone acts of violence then I suggest you are talking about the wrong sports. Whether you like it or not, Hore's actions was unnecessary and potentially dangerous. It doesn't matter if it was done on a Welsh / NZ / Romanian / Canadian etc ... fact remains the actions undertaken by Hore was dangerous, whether you like it or not.