EOYT: Wales vs New Zealand, 24/11/2012

[Draggs]

This better, Mite?

 

[Teh Mite]

:lol:

 

[TRF_Olyy]

 

[nickdnz]

Also Nick, really? I expected better from you. Really going to play the 'When it happens to a NZ nothing is said' and 'When a NZ does it there is more fuss' cards? It doesn't matter the players nationality, the fact remains Hore's actions were dangerous and led to a player spending a night in hospital because of it. I would be equally in uproar if it was a Welsh player who had done it to a NZ player.

If the nonsense carries on, and stupid stuff said then the thread will be locked. If you condone acts of violence then I suggest you are talking about the wrong sports. Whether you like it or not, Hore's actions was unnecessary and potentially dangerous. It doesn't matter if it was done on a Welsh / NZ / Romanian / Canadian etc ... fact remains the actions undertaken by Hore was dangerous, whether you like it or not.

Jeez Cymro - sorry to disappoint you. I think if you read my posts there is no part where I condone acts of violence (I've said Hore should recieve a ban - like anyone who does something dangerous should). What I am saying is that the same standards need to be held for all incidents - which isn't the case. Don't close down match threads which are generating discussion - based on you not liking the content. If you wish to admonish me on the board again, PM me or take it to the staff forum.

I think what TRF_Nickdnz is trying to say is that he's fed up of journalists trying to portray the All Blacks as evil dirty players who get generous treatment from the IRB.

When every nation has dirty players, and the citing system is just as much a lottery for them as it is for everybody else.

People showed outcry about Thomson only getting one week. But the All Blacks have had foul play against them just as often as they do it themselves, and some of that got lenient bans as well (see below incidents). So the All Blacks aren't the only team with a few dirty players in it, and they get as many lenient bans as other teams to in the lottery of the system so there is no double standards treatment. So TRF_Nickdnz is right, the "let's bash the All Blacks" attitude in the British press is unfair, and should be solely directed at Hore for his foul play not the entire All Blacks as a team.

Rougerie eye gouge (no ban)
McLaughlin eye gouge (no ban)
Hartley arm charge (no ban)
Cooper knee to the head (no ban)
You think that is bad. Go and look at some of the missed tackles statistics for the Pumas backline from the match with Ireland.

Thank you - you hit the nail on the head! Exactly what I'm saying.

 

[willrobinson]

Why was the andrew hore thread locked?

TV3 here in NZ has shown coverage of what led upto hore clocking the welsh player. IMO it brings a bit of balance to what happened. Hore should not of knocked him out and i believe he probably didnt mean to take it that far. But that guy was ******* him off and would of got what he deserved had hore just knocked him over and not knocked him out. After seeing that footage i believe hore wont be banned for as long as people think.

all he was doing was attempting to slow down the speed and effectiveness of hore entering the ruck. Which any player would do surely a push would of been adequate not a swinging right hand from behind.

 

[kovana]

Really TRF nicks...How about looking at austing and his comments?

Why hasnt hore apologized to Davies? In fact, why hasnt the AB camp condemned the incident?

 

[willrobinson]

I actually think sometimes the irb have to turn a blind eye on certain incidents for the sake of the sport. If every incident was picked up in just this tour alone there would be constant negative media attention. Which will result in parents taking the future stars away from rugby and increased negativity on the sport. Its like road racing (tour de france) if you asked most people what springs to mind about it they will say doping because of all the negative press that circulates it. The recent court case with lance armstrong that went on for months is a perfect example of this in the end they found him guilty and stripped him of the awards but they cant give it to anyone else cause all the runner up's have also been found guilty of drug cheating

What does this say to most people "all racers are drug cheats"

What will all this media attention say to non rugby fans "all rugby players are thugs"

 

[donmcdazzle]

Really TRF nicks...How about looking at austing and his comments?

Why hasnt hore apologized to Davies? In fact, why hasnt the AB camp condemned the incident?

Oh gosh. Where were you when Rougerie eye gouged McCaw, Hartley elbow dropped him, Powell clotheslined him and Healy punch/forearmed him like in all those videos before? How come you weren't condemning the state of each country's rugby union when none of those acts were apologised for by the perpetrator and their administration?

You are obviously purely out to rile up NZ fans for some reason. Care to let us in on what the reason is?

 

[kovana]

Oh gosh. Where were you when Rougerie eye gouged McCaw, Hartley elbow dropped him, Powell clotheslined him and Healy punch/forearmed him like in all those videos before? How come you weren't condemning the state of each country's rugby union when none of those acts were apologised for by the perpetrator and their administration?

You are obviously purely out to rile up NZ fans for some reason. Care to let us in on what the reason is?

Amazing, Davies was the one attacked here, yet you turn around and make it about Mccaw. Amazing.

Anyway DON, i was pretty much not around back then, BUT those attacks on Mccaw were deplorable. But ok, its always about Mccaw ey, since it happened to him, that means its ok that it happened to Davies.

And if you missed out on my other posts, Greylings Attack on Mccaw WAS condemned publicly by both the springbok captain and the coach. Something that the AB management has not, or refused, to do. Somehow its the ABs who are the victims here.

 

[donmcdazzle]

Amazing, Davies was the one attacked here, yet you turn around and make it about Mccaw. Amazing.

Anyway DON, i was pretty much not around back then, BUT those attacks on Mccaw were deplorable. But ok, its always about Mccaw ey, since it happened to him, that means its ok that it happened to Davies.

And if you missed out on my other posts, Greylings Attack on Mccaw WAS condemned publicly by both the springbok captain and the coach. Something that the AB management has not, or refused, to do. Somehow its the ABs who are the victims here.

Ok cool so in your opinion South Africa should be commended in their condemnation of Greyling's attack. However NZ along with Wales, Ireland, France, England, Australia are all in the same camp by not publicly apologising or whatever it is you think they sould have done? So NZ isn't the only deplorable rugby nation then, we are in some good company.

 

[Shaggy]

Really TRF nicks...How about looking at austing and his comments?

Why hasnt hore apologized to Davies? In fact, why hasnt the AB camp condemned the incident?

First of all, I hope Andrew Hore does get a lengthy penalty at the judiciary ... secondly, if any player is going to the judiciary, their team management/themselves, aren't going to publicly going to comment on the incident/PUBLICALLY appologise BEFORE their hearing ... that's not to say they haven't appologised privately, or that they won't appologise after the hearing, lastly, why is a public appology necessary anyway? ... all I want from any player that commits foul play, is that they get appropriately penalised for their offence, and that they don't repeat offend

 

[austingtir]

Kovana,

Come on now mate we are all entitled to an opinion and i stand by mine.

Why should hore apologize? He hasnt even been through the judiciary yet. I will be very suprised if we see any thing of the sort from hore. And the AB camp cant condemn the incident as im sure as i stated earlier that they condoned it in the first place. They werent going to take these welshies running obstruction like that and fair enough aswell.

 

[Zed]

No idea why players/team officials/supporters end up trying to support their offending player when it comes to violent on field incidents. And this "oh yeah what about when Mccaw was elbowed" blah blah is just childish. Hore's 'tackle' was totally illegal, the ball was nowhere in sight and he could have seriously injured the other guy. It should not matter that he plays for your team, it's a game and no-one wants to see a player, any player, seriously injured or hurt. If you're a Kiwi you should be the ones that are the most vocal and most critical of Hore. You shouldn't be trying to bloody defend him or mitigate the offence by mentioning other on-field incidents such as Powells. They are completely irrelevant. The All Blacks aren't a thuggish side, never have been, but there have been a few unsavory incidents in the last few years that really have been dealt with very poorly. The ABS have a fantastic reputation, but crap like Hores tackle only damages it. And when the ABs + supporters act defiantly this only worsens their reputation.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I can't ever remember a coach/player coming out and publicly apologising for foul play.
Maybe the player, after the citing, saying it was the wrong thing etc.etc., but certainly not before.

 

[kovana]

No idea why players/team officials/supporters end up trying to support their offending player when it comes to violent on field incidents. And this "oh yeah what about when Mccaw was elbowed" blah blah is just childish. Hore's 'tackle' was totally illegal, the ball was nowhere in sight and he could have seriously injured the other guy. It should not matter that he plays for your team, it's a game and no-one wants to see a player, any player, seriously injured or hurt. If you're a Kiwi you should be the ones that are the most vocal and most critical of Hore. You shouldn't be trying to bloody defend him or mitigate the offence by mentioning other on-field incidents such as Powells. They are completely irrelevant. The All Blacks aren't a thuggish side, never have been, but there have been a few unsavory incidents in the last few years that really have been dealt with very poorly. The ABS have a fantastic reputation, but crap like Hores tackle only damages it. And when the ABs + supporters act defiantly this only worsens their reputation.

This. Well said.
............
.................
..................... But what about that time Mccaw was 'etc etc'.

 

[kovana]

I can't ever remember a coach/player coming out and publicly apologising for foul play.
Maybe the player, after the citing, saying it was the wrong thing etc.etc., but certainly not before.

Coach Meyer and Saffa Captain JDV did so in regards to Greylings cheapshot on Mccaw.. Also, remember, Greyling was penalized ON FIELD as well as OFF FIELD.

 

[Helmy]

I'd just like to point out with some legal cases, the worst thing you can do is apologise, to apologise is to admit guilt, and can lead to a harsher penalty. I don't know the exact ins and outs of how citings work with the IRB, but I would imagine this might have something to do with the ABs refusing to comment until after Hore has been cited.

 

[Shaggy]

Coach Meyer and Saffa Captain JDV did so in regards to Greylings cheapshot on Mccaw.. Also, remember, Greyling was penalized ON FIELD as well as OFF FIELD.

Yeah, well firstly, they are two separate incidents, secondly, if appologies are so important, why isn't the offender appologising, and not his captain and coach, thirdly, it's stamping out the foul play/punishing the offender that's important.

 

[kovana]

I'd just like to point out with some legal cases, the worst thing you can do is apologise, to apologise is to admit guilt, and can lead to a harsher penalty. I don't know the exact ins and outs of how citings work with the IRB, but I would imagine this might have something to do with the ABs refusing to comment until after Hore has been cited.

So, what you are saying is that Hore is not guilty, or worse yet, he FEELS he is not guilty. Well thats just dandy.

 

[Helmy]

So, what you are saying is that Hore is not guilty, or worse yet, he FEELS he is not guilty. Well thats just dandy.

No, I'm saying that due to the way these things work, he could be handed a worse punishment by apologising. I think everyone would agree that he'll be trying to get the smallest ban possible, which is probably why he hasn't apologised. If you'd read my previous posts you'd see I think Hore deserves to have the book thrown at him, but don't let that get in the way of a good witch hunt.