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[EOYT] Ireland vs New Zealand 24/11/13

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Conal said:
apart from the d'arcy selection im reasonably happy

however doubts of sextons fitness and madigans game management are also in my head
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....like...*in* your head ???..
 
D'arcy ahead of Marshall is the only really contentious call. I suspect D'arcy is there for the strength of his defence.
 
Big Ewis said:
....like...*in* your head ???..
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aye back on my type stuff

i dont want ireland to play sexton if he is only going to last 40mins and go off with a hamstring strain.

and if madigan has to come on early i have some doubts of his game management skills
 
Watching the live announcement it seems Marshall would have started if the management had known Sexton/BOD were fit sooner so they went with D'arcy for experience in case they weren't. I think Ulster had to name their side yesterday so Marshall could have been left with no game time over the weekend if injuries stayed true. Marshall will be first choice come the 6 nations I think. Also it seems Jackson won't be seen as a a bench option due to his lack of versatility but he is 2nd choice behind Sexton.

edit. Also in the case that Sexton and BOD wouldn't have made it, the backs would have been left with a line up of Jackson/Marshall/Henshaw. So not only is Jackson 2nd choice to Sexton but Henshaw is also 2nd choice to BOD for now.
 
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David Smith said:
Really far from the truth. Meckenize is know for his attacking rugby and we have scored plenty of tries over the last few games. What have you been watching???
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He may be known for his attacking rugby, but that doesn't win games alone. Scoring tries isn't proof of being one of the top 3 sides in the world. Australia have bags of talent in the backs obviously, but their forwards just aren't up to scratch and aren't giving them the go-forward ball they need to release those backs.

And I'm watching recent games. Australia's performance against England was lethargic and one-dimensional- not something you expect of southern hemis. Also, let's not bring up 41-16, seems a little too far in the past by now. But still, there's been nothing of late to suggest Australia are anywhere near the side they have been in the past, or could be with some of the fantastic players they have. If you're an Aus fan who is happy with your team atm, then you're settling for mediocrity given some of the amazing players your country has.
 
Seriously uninspiring selection from Ireland.

If there was a chance that Sexton was going to be fit why not keep Marshall in the squad - I just can't see what attacking threat that D'Arcy and BOD bring in midfield. BOD was every bit as poor as Marshall defensively last weekend yet due to that missed tackle Marshall gets all the stick.

Toner should not be starting in the second row. I don't think he brings enough stability in the scrum and doesn't do enough in the loose to make up for it. I'd have any of D O'Callaghan, McCarthy or Tuohy in there. Its a pity Henderson is only back this weekend as he would have been a cert.

Really starting to wonder what the problem is with Trimble. I recognise that he hasn't quite hit the peaks this season yet but four key injuries on the wing and still doesn't make the squad. He brings more to the table than Fitzgerald.

I'm not at all confident in this team - particularly with three backs struggling for fitness. It seems set out to defend well but with no attacking intent you are just inviting the All Black's onto you. I would be delighted to be proved wrong but with this team we will be lucky to keep it within 20.
 
collace said:
Seriously uninspiring selection from Ireland.

If there was a chance that Sexton was going to be fit why not keep Marshall in the squad - I just can't see what attacking threat that D'Arcy and BOD bring in midfield. BOD was every bit as poor as Marshall defensively last weekend yet due to that missed tackle Marshall gets all the stick.

Toner should not be starting in the second row. I don't think he brings enough stability in the scrum and doesn't do enough in the loose to make up for it. I'd have any of D O'Callaghan, McCarthy or Tuohy in there. Its a pity Henderson is only back this weekend as he would have been a cert.

Really starting to wonder what the problem is with Trimble. I recognise that he hasn't quite hit the peaks this season yet but four key injuries on the wing and still doesn't make the squad. He brings more to the table than Fitzgerald.

I'm not at all confident in this team - particularly with three backs struggling for fitness. It seems set out to defend well but with no attacking intent you are just inviting the All Black's onto you. I would be delighted to be proved wrong but with this team we will be lucky to keep it within 20.
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+1
 
collace said:
1. Seriously uninspiring selection from Ireland.

2. If there was a chance that Sexton was going to be fit why not keep Marshall in the squad - I just can't see what attacking threat that D'Arcy and BOD bring in midfield. BOD was every bit as poor as Marshall defensively last weekend yet due to that missed tackle Marshall gets all the stick.

3. Toner should not be starting in the second row. I don't think he brings enough stability in the scrum and doesn't do enough in the loose to make up for it. I'd have any of D O'Callaghan, McCarthy or Tuohy in there. Its a pity Henderson is only back this weekend as he would have been a cert.

4. Really starting to wonder what the problem is with Trimble. I recognise that he hasn't quite hit the peaks this season yet but four key injuries on the wing and still doesn't make the squad. He brings more to the table than Fitzgerald.

5. I'm not at all confident in this team - particularly with three backs struggling for fitness. It seems set out to defend well but with no attacking intent you are just inviting the All Black's onto you. I would be delighted to be proved wrong but with this team we will be lucky to keep it within 20.
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1. Schmidt doesn't have a lot of choice, we're plagued by injury (Mainly all the young Ulster lads for some reason) and no matter what team we play we'll be defending a lot on Sunday so conservative is probably best when we're almost certainly going to lose no matter what.

2. Everyone was poor defensively but that missed tackle really was the peak of a **** day and a Johnny Cash, D'Arcy and BOD axis definitely brings an attacking threat.

3. Agreed, we've picked the same tight 5 that got mushed against the Aussie scrum, very worrying.

4. Trimble falls into the bracket of the likes of Shane Jennings and Leo Cullen unfortunately, fantastic provincial players but they don't or can't produce on the international stage and also if Fitzgerald can get back to his best (Similar to '09) he starts ahead of a fit Zebo in my opinion, he can also cover 13 and 15 a lot more comfortably which may be needed.

5. Once again we have an ageing midfield but it used to form the best centre partnership the professional game has ever seen, I don't see them throwing away their last shot at the All Blacks, Mcfadden is a big loss, he brings more than D Kearney but with Bowe on the other wing and Sexton at 10 we can do damage, much more than England last week. As for the fitness we have to wait and see.
 
The Irish will rise to the occasion. They ll need nothing short of miracle .Something similar to the rare sighting of the arch angel Michael.Being the
 
collace said:
Seriously uninspiring selection from Ireland.

If there was a chance that Sexton was going to be fit why not keep Marshall in the squad - I just can't see what attacking threat that D'Arcy and BOD bring in midfield. BOD was every bit as poor as Marshall defensively last weekend yet due to that missed tackle Marshall gets all the stick.
I would love for Marshall to have started but I can see Schmidt's logic. There was only a chance that Sexton and BOD would be fit. Not worth the risk when Marshall could get a lot of game time next year/

Toner should not be starting in the second row. I don't think he brings enough stability in the scrum and doesn't do enough in the loose to make up for it. I'd have any of D O'Callaghan, McCarthy or Tuohy in there. Its a pity Henderson is only back this weekend as he would have been a cert.
I agree about Toner. He seems like a guy who can fill in a space and only stands out because of his height. Even then he hasn't used his height to much of an advantage. If he wasn't that height I do wonder if he would have been in the team. I think Tuohy can do what he does but with more dynamism.

Really starting to wonder what the problem is with Trimble. I recognise that he hasn't quite hit the peaks this season yet but four key injuries on the wing and still doesn't make the squad. He brings more to the table than Fitzgerald.
He mentioned Trimble in the live stream. It came down to versatility again I believe as he mentioned Trimble was training well. Although TBH Trimble hasn't been in great form for Ulster.

I'm not at all confident in this team - particularly with three backs struggling for fitness. It seems set out to defend well but with no attacking intent you are just inviting the All Black's onto you. I would be delighted to be proved wrong but with this team we will be lucky to keep it within 20.
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I think that's the strongest XV that Ireland can put out. Bar Marshall for D'arcy and possibly Tuohy for Toner, there isn't going to be much difference.

I'm not expecting a win this weekend but I am expecting that we don't play as lacklustre as we did last weekend while also cutting out the stupid mistakes. If we play to our best, I can see Ireland keeping the score respectable. Unfortunately, the ABs have shown all year why they are the best and that's going to show in the scoreline.

Just for the sake of it, here's the XV I would have liked.

1. Healy
2. Best.
3. Ross (Even though he was **** last week, what choice do we have with Fitzpatrick being so fragile)
4. Tuohy
5. O'Connell
6. O'Mahony
7. O'Brien
8. Heaslip (Run it straight)
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. Fitzgerald (I know he's just come back but we know what he can do and he's faced the ABs before)
12. Marshall
13. BOD (I know you're slow now but less kicks please)
14. Bowe (Get more involved)
15. Kearney (He's the best we got but I haven't rated him for a while now. Good boot and can catch a ball but he doesn't provide much on the counter attack and when he does counter he doesn't exactly link with those around him.

I know this is very inexperienced but if Sexton and BOD were injured I actually thought Jackson/Marshall/Cave would be pretty nice looking.
 
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UlsterRugby2012 said:
HAHAHAHAHAHA

Well, again, good luck Leinster.
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Are you really already so bitter that you're coming out with posts like this? Give Schmidt a chance

collace said:
Seriously uninspiring selection from Ireland.

If there was a chance that Sexton was going to be fit why not keep Marshall in the squad - I just can't see what attacking threat that D'Arcy and BOD bring in midfield. BOD was every bit as poor as Marshall defensively last weekend yet due to that missed tackle Marshall gets all the stick.

Toner should not be starting in the second row. I don't think he brings enough stability in the scrum and doesn't do enough in the loose to make up for it. I'd have any of D O'Callaghan, McCarthy or Tuohy in there. Its a pity Henderson is only back this weekend as he would have been a cert.

Really starting to wonder what the problem is with Trimble. I recognise that he hasn't quite hit the peaks this season yet but four key injuries on the wing and still doesn't make the squad. He brings more to the table than Fitzgerald.

I'm not at all confident in this team - particularly with three backs struggling for fitness. It seems set out to defend well but with no attacking intent you are just inviting the All Black's onto you. I would be delighted to be proved wrong but with this team we will be lucky to keep it within 20.
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O'Connell was the bigger problem in the scrum last week but that could be fixed by moving him over which would mean Toner dropped really, but no way is DO'C ahead of him nowadays.

Fitzgerald has always offered more than Trimble, though Trimble does offer more than D.K.. What Trimble lacks is hands. He has stone arms when going for a high ball and in general Schmidt's winger set up tries, they don't score many. He doesn't have the x-factor for international level.



D'arcy has really been picked for being the best at the Sexton loop and the fact that everyone he tackles will get a friction burn.
 
cmac95 said:
1. Schmidt doesn't have a lot of choice, we're plagued by injury (Mainly all the young Ulster lads for some reason) and no matter what team we play we'll be defending a lot on Sunday so conservative is probably best when we're almost certainly going to lose no matter what.

2. Everyone was poor defensively but that missed tackle really was the peak of a **** day and a Johnny Cash, D'Arcy and BOD axis definitely brings an attacking threat.

3. Agreed, we've picked the same tight 5 that got mushed against the Aussie scrum, very worrying.

4. Trimble falls into the bracket of the likes of Shane Jennings and Leo Cullen unfortunately, fantastic provincial players but they don't or can't produce on the international stage and also if Fitzgerald can get back to his best (Similar to '09) he starts ahead of a fit Zebo in my opinion, he can also cover 13 and 15 a lot more comfortably which may be needed.

5. Once again we have an ageing midfield but it used to form the best centre partnership the professional game has ever seen, I don't see them throwing away their last shot at the All Blacks, Mcfadden is a big loss, he brings more than D Kearney but with Bowe on the other wing and Sexton at 10 we can do damage, much more than England last week. As for the fitness we have to wait and see.
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1. I agree with a lot of what you say, and maybe I'm being a bit negative. However, everyone knows we are going to get beat - I would rather use the opportunity to blood a couple of the younger guys (just a couple - I'm not advocating replacing the whole lot) - particularly with the fitness problems. These are the guys who are going to be playing in the big tests moving forward - get them used to it and get the ball rolling.

2. My problem with Sexton, D'Arcy and BOD is that Sexton and BOD aren't fully fit and D'Arcy doesn't have the attacking prowess of Marshall. In this situation you need your 12 creating and Marshall will do that - he had several promising line breaks on Saturday - D'Arcy won't. Is a Sexton who will have a small bit of his mind on that hamstring going to be challenging the line?

3. Even O'connell was a worry on Saturday - fearing for the scrum.

4. It's been a while since Fitzgerald was at his best - perhaps the same could be said of Trimble. I do think Trimble brings more defensively while there not being a lot in it offensively.

5. Apart from being a bit better defensively I just don't see what D'Arcy brings anymore. Maybe I'm a bit biased but with Sexton and BOD starting Marshall should be in there. R Kearney has also been in very poor form this Autumn. TBH I think when Payne is IQ he will be a lot to the table either at 15 or 13.

Hoping I'm wrong - just hope Ireland show a bit more than they did last week otherwise it could get ugly.
 
F'arcy and o'ldfool the best centre partnership the professional era has ever seen?

Ha ha ha ha ha....
 
ruggabee said:
I think that's the strongest XV that Ireland can put out. Bar Marshall for D'arcy and possibly Tuohy for Toner, there isn't going to be much difference.

I'm not expecting a win this weekend but I am expecting that we don't play as lacklustre as we did last weekend while also cutting out the stupid mistakes. If we play to our best, I can see Ireland keeping the score respectable. Unfortunately, the ABs have shown all year why they are the best and that's going to show in the scoreline.

Just for the sake of it, here's the XV I would have liked.

1. Healy
2. Best.
3. Ross (Even though he was **** last week, what choice do we have with Fitzpatrick being so fragile)
4. Tuohy
5. O'Connell
6. O'Mahony
7. O'Brien
8. Heaslip (Run it straight)
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. Fitzgerald (I know he's just come back but we know what he can do and he's faced the ABs before)
12. Marshall
13. BOD (I know you're slow now but less kicks please)
14. Bowe (Get more involved)
15. Kearney (He's the best we got but I haven't rated him for a while now. Good boot and can catch a ball but he doesn't provide much on the counter attack and when he does counter he doesn't exactly link with those around him.

I know this is very inexperienced but if Sexton and BOD were injured I actually thought Jackson/Marshall/Cave would be pretty nice looking.
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I would be much happier if that had been the line-up.

TBH I've been concerned about BOD defensively the last couple of games. Look at the analysis from Saturday and Samoa - he jumps out of the line looking either for an interception or to pinch the attacker. However this is leaving big holes behind him. It particularly happened with the first try on Saturday. I just hope this hasn't been a season too far for him. I wouldn't want even a slight tarnishing of his legacy by having a bad last season.
 
BasqueBete said:
F'arcy and o'ldfool the best centre partnership the professional era has ever seen?

Ha ha ha ha ha....
Click to expand...

To use a line o sulli mi used so well last week, no one will ever love you.

collace said:
1. I agree with a lot of what you say, and maybe I'm being a bit negative. However, everyone knows we are going to get beat - I would rather use the opportunity to blood a couple of the younger guys (just a couple - I'm not advocating replacing the whole lot) - particularly with the fitness problems. These are the guys who are going to be playing in the big tests moving forward - get them used to it and get the ball rolling.

2. My problem with Sexton, D'Arcy and BOD is that Sexton and BOD aren't fully fit and D'Arcy doesn't have the attacking prowess of Marshall. In this situation you need your 12 creating and Marshall will do that - he had several promising line breaks on Saturday - D'Arcy won't. Is a Sexton who will have a small bit of his mind on that hamstring going to be challenging the line?

3. Even O'connell was a worry on Saturday - fearing for the scrum.

4. It's been a while since Fitzgerald was at his best - perhaps the same could be said of Trimble. I do think Trimble brings more defensively while there not being a lot in it offensively.

5. Apart from being a bit better defensively I just don't see what D'Arcy brings anymore. Maybe I'm a bit biased but with Sexton and BOD starting Marshall should be in there. R Kearney has also been in very poor form this Autumn. TBH I think when Payne is IQ he will be a lot to the table either at 15 or 13.

Hoping I'm wrong - just hope Ireland show a bit more than they did last week otherwise it could get ugly.
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Yeah, I can understand your points, if we end up having to bring BOD or Sexton off before 50 mins it will be a disaster and leave D'Arcy being there pretty much redundant but if they both play 70-80 minutes I think D'Arce is the right choice for this game even if it is a one off selection, Marshall should get the 12 spot for the 6 nations.

Even if Ireland are twice as good as they were last week it'll be ugly!!! :p
 
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