[EOYT] Ireland vs New Zealand 24/11/13

[Sam Owen]

and if Nick comments were about the game then i would agree, he admitted he said something to get a rise and then when he got it the Moderator hat came on and threatened banning, lets not put the cart before the horse, the first problem was Nick "flamming" the irish supporters

He was probably drunk lol. Who does that on Monday mornings?.. Nick does lol

 

[Chikwa]

I hope we have not peaked too early.We perhaps need to lose a couple if games next season .away games to South Africa and Australia England need to be beaten 3 - 0 when they come down.This will cause their press them off and it will absolutely reduce their confidence.
The Irish laid down the blue print for how to rattle us with their high pressure game.A tactic used often by the boks.The current strategy of not attacking and committing numbers to the breakdown can be risky and puts unnecessary pressure on our defence.This needs to be urgently reviewed! What is the definition of a champion?
A person who had surpassed all rivals in sporting contests and other competitions. The mighty All Blacks!

 

[UilamOsa]

If I were a Kiwi, I'd be very concerned at how the Irish backrow completely beasted the renowned All Black backrow in every facet of play. The Irish backrow seemed to career over the gainline all game, and more worryingly, the All Blacks were beaten well at the breakdown (normally their pride and joy and the area of the game where they're most noted for their superiority). Ireland got a lot of fast ball and slowed down the AB's ball very effectively (and legally). I've never seen Richie McCaw so comprehensively outgunned...

Not really that concerned.

We were putting up a new front row, we had to pull another player through illness - effectively our tight five lacked much cohesion (just check out the maul defense as opposed to other matches), your loosies are only ever going to be effective if a) Your tight five are equal to their opponents or b) dominates your opponents. AB's never had either until about the 50minute mark. Discipline and Fitness and superior mental aptitude won it out.

They're not excuses, the Irish tight 5 were superior, but they are partially reasons I believe that the Irish Tight Five were all over our guys but as the game wore on, it was the men in green struggling to get up. This is the last match in a fairly long year for the AB's but they were still their fighting for the match at 80+ minutes.

 

[Larksea]

freaking hilarious comparing the TMO checks on the first Irish try to the last All Black try

Irish Try - quick single look flashed up on screen and ignore pretty obvious knock on evidence, award the try and stop replaying it so people don't actually see and realize the ball moved and hit the ground independently of the players arm, hand or body

All Black try - check clear back passes not even line balls three times

 

[tenpm]

freaking hilarious comparing the TMO checks on the first Irish try to the last All Black try

Irish Try - quick single look flashed up on screen and ignore pretty obvious knock on evidence, award the try and stop replaying it so people don't actually see and realize the ball moved and hit the ground independently of the players arm, hand or body

All Black try - check clear back passes not even line balls three times

Dude, this kind of mentality is why All Blacks fans get flak for excessive complaining.

There's a huge difference between the first try of the match with 70+ minutes to go and a (potential) try during injury time that determines the result of the match. There's no bias or conspiracy here mate, the significance of the second try was much, much greater than the first.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Contrary to almost everyone in here - we deserved to win. We played for 80 minutes and when the final whistle went we had scored more points. Yes, it is sad for Ireland. It looked like they were just trying to close the game out for all of the second half. They needed to show a bit more in that second half rather than just sit on their lead.

Comments like this won't win you any fans. No you didn't deserve the win, and neither did Ireland deserve to lose. But it happened, and that's just part of the Sporting Enigma.

How about a bit humility? The Reason people look up to guys like Mccaw, Carter, Habana etc. is because they stay humble, even in victory.

I feel the Irish fans pain. And I cheered for the green guys the whole 80. Even after 80 minutes I still believed that they would win. But that just didn't happen. I think the entire world was cheering Ireland on (apart from the Kiwis of course). Everyone was probably thinking the same as me, "Come on Ireland, don't let those cocky NZ'ers get another record, they have too many".

 

[The Jones Boy]

Clive Woodward on the tv panel during the halftime break said the first try was clearly not a try, it was a knock in the in goal area.
Every try is of equal merit, 5 points.
Larksea has a valid point.
Not unlike when the Kearney was tackled in the air from ... a Grubber kick and the ref wasn't interested but Paul O'Connell and Kearney badgered the linesman into going upstairs and the TMO gave it.
Excellent time wasting and it earned a change of possession and field position.
Call it what you want it's gamesmanship.
Bottom line is the AB's have to be good enough to overcome that sort of nonsense every time they travel ... ad this year they are.

 

[Chikwa]

Comments like this won't win you any fans. No you didn't deserve the win, and neither did Ireland deserve to lose. But it happened, and that's just part of the Sporting Enigma.

How about a bit humility? The Reason people look up to guys like Mccaw, Carter, Habana etc. is because they stay humble, even in victory.

I feel the Irish fans pain. And I cheered for the green guys the whole 80. Even after 80 minutes I still believed that they would win. But that just didn't happen. I think the entire world was cheering Ireland on (apart from the Kiwis of course). Everyone was probably thinking the same as me, "Come on Ireland, don't let those cocky NZ'ers get another record, they have too many".

Cocky New Zealanders .That is really unfair.They are amongst the most sporting teams I have ever come across. Apart from conduct on the field a good gauge is the commentators who usually have a former rubgy player commentating when their team is playing.The Scottish,kiwis and the Irish are the most humble .

 

[TRF_heineken]

Cocky New Zealanders .That is really unfair.They are amongst the most sporting teams I have ever come across. Apart from conduct on the field a good gauge is the commentators who usually have a former rubgy player commentating when their team is playing.The Scottish,kiwis and the Irish are the most humble .

I'm talking about their fans...

Read my post thoroughly... I mention to NZ players who I look up to, who are humble...

 

[The Jones Boy]

Comments like this won't win you any fans. No you didn't deserve the win, and neither did Ireland deserve to lose. But it happened, and that's just part of the Sporting Enigma.

Just like your Boks deserved to win at Eden Park and then in Johannesburg too yeah?
More sporting enigmas?
All Blacks are lucky to win the RWC?
All Blacks are lucky to win the RC for two years straight?
All Blacks are lucky to be the world no.1 ranked rugby team for the last FOUR YEARS !!!!
Yeah we get by on dumb luck and thats all there is too it, yes absolutely, no skill, no cool under pressure, no style or class, no smart management team, no effort and hard work, just dumb luck, yeah thats it.
The All Blacks, the luckiest sporting team in the world across any code.

How about a bit humility?

How about a bit of respect?
Do you remember that word.
I remember all the carry on from the Bok fans about how they were ripped off and the AB's didn't deserve the victory in Eden Park or Jo'burg.

Will you ever tire of that old chestnut?

The AB's play with humility and respect for all their opposition and all they hear from the sections of the oppositions support is the same tripe you troll out on here... they are lucky and don't deserve the victory.

Tosser.

Ireland were magnificent until the All Blacks clawed their way back into the game and struck at their line, it killed Sextons self belief and then Ireland quailed at the last. Ireland were wonderful but the All Blacks, well , whatever they were, it wasn't lucky, they made their tries and they made the pressure on Sexton by tightening the game up.

I thought you would have been a happy saffer presiding over what looks like the best South African team in history but no you have to stab us in the back like a churlish coward.
How very sporting of you.

 

[donmcdazzle]

Well after reading this thread before actually seeing the game (no chance was I getting up that early), I almost can't believe what I saw when I did watch the replay. The way this thread has told it you would think we never even had a run with the ball in the first half. When in fact we made some really nice play, and spent multiple phases in the Irish 22.

We we had numerous line breaks and had them stretched a number of times and went very close to scoring three times. To Ireland's credit they defended pretty well and scrambled extremely well, and obviously made some very fine play of their own. They were extremely efficient with their attacks in the first 20 mins; the first and second try were ruthless.

no doubt they had the best of the first half, but the way it was portrayed on here was just miles from what actually happened. A 12 point lead was almost flattering to Ireland.

i don't agree that Ireland stopped playing in the second half either, they did essentially the same stuff as they did in the first half. They were trying cross kicks and stuff with 10 to go so it isn't fair to say they shut up shop.

Last comment; if Sexton isn't the most overrated player in world rugby, I don't know who is. He is the Irish version of Stephen Donald.

 

[The Jones Boy]

Stephen Donald was plucked from fishing on the Waikato river and won the 2011 RWC.
He's a Kiwi hero.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Wow what a finish! What a game! I think that's one of the best wins I've ever seen, given that NZ had to score from 80 odd metres out with nothing left on the clock. I feel for the Irish, nobody wants to lose, but to lose when you had a 19 point start, and leading by 5 points with time almost up, that must really suck. Whoever it was on the Irish side that kicked the ball away at the end must now be kicking themselves - after doing such a good job of retaining possession and winding down the clock it was arguably the worst decision of the game, given the context. Likewise, Sexton must be feeling pretty down, given he had a relatively easy kick to put the game out of reach (of course that's not taking into consideration the mental pressure, but surely it's easier to kick a penalty to secure the win than it is to kick a conversion to attain that win).

Whilst the Irish won't be congratulating themselves for their spirited effort, they deserve a lot of credit for really taking it to one of the best teams of the era. Their forwards were immense, and they took all the opportunities they were presented with in the first half. A few comments have been made about the refereeing of the breakdown, but I don't think it was particularly bad. There were few obvious mistakes from Owens, with regards to not releasing etc., but not more than in other games, and certainly no game breaking calls (though I was mighty worried when they were reviewing that final NZ score, even though it was a clear try). It's not often Read goes missing in a test match, but that happened today. McCaw was subdued too, and Faumuina, who is normally a brilliant ball carrier, was relatively quiet too. I think that's one of the main reasons Ireland did so well, they stopped NZ from getting over the game line considerably better than NZ did in return. It will be very interesting to see how Ireland go in the Six Nations, the Northern Hemisphere nations are known for being a bit inconsistent, but maybe Schmidt can take Ireland to new heights and maintain high standards at least until the World Cup.

The All Blacks were lucky to escape, but they also played until the last minute, which is something Ireland failed to do. I thought our front row wasa bit disappointing today, I've certainly seen nothing from Crockett this year to think he's a long term option (especially given his age). Faumuina was, as I mentioned, a bit disappointing too. That being said, it was wonderful to see secure scrums for once, I'm sure the solid pitch helped. Coles added some good impact when he came on, I'm not worried about him starting big matches in the future (though I don't necessarily think he'll ever achieve any great heights). Whitelock was pretty solid, especially in the tight work. Retallick was ok, he made a bad decision or two and was a bit less accurate than usual, but for a young guy he's played an exceptional amount of rugby this year.

Luatua had a good game in the loose, he looked hungry, but he still needs to work on the tight stuff a bit more. He should definitely focus on hitting breakdowns next season, because he's a big guy and could do a lot of damage. I think McCaw's career is coming to an end, to be perfectly honest, I don't think he is as influential as he has been in the past, and I don't think a shift away from the open side will save his career either. Yes, he's a brilliant captain, but Read has served a good apprenticeship, and Cane is too promising a player to not be getting game time. If Cane played every game from now until the World Cup, I'd imagine he'd certainly be a better selection come 2015 than McCaw will be.

I don't think Smith had a very good game, but what was refreshing was that he did very few box kicks. The Irish monstered the rucks, and I think in a game like this Kerr-Barlow would be a better option. Smith is great in busy running games, where quick ball is a huge advantage, whereas Kerr-Barlow is more handy if the game is a bit slower, and the opposition forwards have the upper hand. It's a shame Perenara didn't get a run. I think that in the future I'd like to see Smith or Kerr-Barlow starting, with Perenara coming off the bench around the sixty minute mark.

Cruden had an up and down performance. He set up the first try brilliantly and kicked that important conversion (he also set Nonu up for what could've been the game winning break, but silly Ma'a fumbled the ball), but he also missed a couple of important tackles and failed to find touch with a penalty kick (he borrowed that flaw from Barrett), and sometimes he looked to be just shovelling the ball along (again I think this was partially an issue with Smith clearing the ball quickly when there weren't really any options out wide). That being said, he also made some great jinking runs. I think he will be better for every match he plays, and like McCaw I think Carter's time may be up as the number one flyhalf. I think he is still the best in the world, but I think he's too fragile to invest so many games in when we need Cruden to improve as much as possible before the World Cup. I'd probably have Barrett on the bench too, to ensure he gets a lot of game time. He really is a super sub, his hard running knocked a few tired Irish players over, and his performance against the Springboks in NZ this year was great too. He can still look a bit manic at times, but he'll settle down with a bit more game time.

Nonu seems to be a very 50/50 player now. One minute you'll be screaming at him for making a stupid error (see: kick), and the next you'll be cheering him on as he makes a match winning run or pass. I hope SBW returns strongly, because I'm not confident enough that Nonu isn't going to ruin our chances of winning in 2015 due to some brain meltdown. Ben Smith gets better with every game at centre, but I can't over exaggerate how excited I was when he was moved back to fullback (even if it was short lived). For me the first choice back three when Conrad returns would be Savea, Smith and Jane, with Dagg on the bench. Of course, this could all change if Dagg finds some form next season. Jane was very quiet today, play didn't really fall his way much. I thought Crotty was a mixed bag off the bench, he score the match winning try (and intelligently got as close to the posts as he could!) but I thought his defence wasn't as secure as it usually is. Given he's more of a dependable player than an X-factor player, this was a bit disappointing. That being said, I don't think he was any worse than Nonu or Dagg today.

What a way to finish the year for the All Blacks. I'm really looking forward to seeing a mock All Blacks lineup run out in Barbarians hoops soon, because guys like Perenara, Bird and Whitelock need some high(ish) quality opposition to test themselves. Hard luck Ireland, each year you're getting close, if it's any consolation.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Oh, Ireland, so close. Just so close. I almost don't want to congratulate Ireland on a game well played and a close margin simply because they really should've/could've but in the end didn't but congratulations are in order though, to both teams; to Ireland for a great game even if the final nail was missing and to NZ for simply refusing to lose even when beaten if that makes any sense.. or I should rather say when other teams would've accepted being beaten (in their heads if not on the field).

It's just those fine margins and habits coming into play; NZ just don't know how to lose anymore just as teams are almost surprised when they look like actually beating the ABs.

 

[William18]

Comments like this won't win you any fans. No you didn't deserve the win, and neither did Ireland deserve to lose. But it happened, and that's just part of the Sporting Enigma.

How about a bit humility? The Reason people look up to guys like Mccaw, Carter, Habana etc. is because they stay humble, even in victory.

I feel the Irish fans pain. And I cheered for the green guys the whole 80. Even after 80 minutes I still believed that they would win. But that just didn't happen. I think the entire world was cheering Ireland on (apart from the Kiwis of course). Everyone was probably thinking the same as me, "Come on Ireland, don't let those cocky NZ'ers get another record, they have too many".

Well, you have a different definition of "deserving" then me. It frustrates me that because we have a different definition of a word that I'm labeled cocky and lacking humility.

To me if you score more points in 80 minutes than the other team you deserve to win except if the referee has a major influence. I think if the scoring was reversed and Ireland scored Kearney's try in the last minute people would then say that the AB's deserved to win. Basically if people see a team leading for most of a game they get it into their head that they deserved to win. We actually won many statistical categories - we had more possession, more territory, made a higher percentage of tackles and ran twice as many metres. None of that is why we deserved to win.

I really don't get that someone can say Ireland deserved to win because of their first half blitz. It's a bit like in soccer when a team has 90% possession and 20 shots on goal and lose 1-0. Did they deserve to lose? Yes! Because they did not take their chances. Same with Ireland - their fitness could not last for 80 minutes and our substitutes were better.

If a game of rugby is 21-20 and Team A wins. Let's say Team A scores 7 penalties and Team B scored 4 unconverted tries. Some might say that Team B deserved to win because they played more attacking rugby. I say no! Team B was undisciplined and couldn't kick goals - two key facets of the game. If Crotty had not scored and Ireland had won then of course Ireland would have deserved to win. Their defence would have been strong enough to hold on. As it stood Ireland could only score 3 points in the last 60 minutes of a rugby game and were not guilty of any negative bias by the referee. Therefore the result is fair. It's tough, it's sad but pointing out cold hard reality should not make one cocky. I even sad it was sad for Ireland in my original post!

I also fail to see how most New Zealanders are not being humble in this thread?

 

[William18]

Just like your Boks deserved to win at Eden Park and then in Johannesburg too yeah?
More sporting enigmas?
All Blacks are lucky to win the RWC?
All Blacks are lucky to win the RC for two years straight?
All Blacks are lucky to be the world no.1 ranked rugby team for the last FOUR YEARS !!!!
Yeah we get by on dumb luck and thats all there is too it, yes absolutely, no skill, no cool under pressure, no style or class, no smart management team, no effort and hard work, just dumb luck, yeah thats it.
The All Blacks, the luckiest sporting team in the world across any code.



How about a bit of respect?
Do you remember that word.
I remember all the carry on from the Bok fans about how they were ripped off and the AB's didn't deserve the victory in Eden Park or Jo'burg.

Will you ever tire of that old chestnut?

The AB's play with humility and respect for all their opposition and all they hear from the sections of the oppositions support is the same tripe you troll out on here... they are lucky and don't deserve the victory.

Tosser.

Ireland were magnificent until the All Blacks clawed their way back into the game and struck at their line, it killed Sextons self belief and then Ireland quailed at the last. Ireland were wonderful but the All Blacks, well , whatever they were, it wasn't lucky, they made their tries and they made the pressure on Sexton by tightening the game up.

I thought you would have been a happy saffer presiding over what looks like the best South African team in history but no you have to stab us in the back like a churlish coward.
How very sporting of you.

This though would have to be one of the worst posts ever on this forum and I feel the need to say so before our Northern Hemisphere friends come to the forum.

 

[donmcdazzle]

Stephen Donald was plucked from fishing on the Waikato river and won the 2011 RWC.
He's a Kiwi hero.

He was pretty average though. I just mean they play very similar games to each other and I'd rate them about the same.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Just like your Boks deserved to win at Eden Park and then in Johannesburg too yeah?
More sporting enigmas?
All Blacks are lucky to win the RWC?
All Blacks are lucky to win the RC for two years straight?
All Blacks are lucky to be the world no.1 ranked rugby team for the last FOUR YEARS !!!!
Yeah we get by on dumb luck and thats all there is too it, yes absolutely, no skill, no cool under pressure, no style or class, no smart management team, no effort and hard work, just dumb luck, yeah thats it.
The All Blacks, the luckiest sporting team in the world across any code.



How about a bit of respect?
Do you remember that word.
I remember all the carry on from the Bok fans about how they were ripped off and the AB's didn't deserve the victory in Eden Park or Jo'burg.

Will you ever tire of that old chestnut?

The AB's play with humility and respect for all their opposition and all they hear from the sections of the oppositions support is the same tripe you troll out on here... they are lucky and don't deserve the victory.

Tosser.

Ireland were magnificent until the All Blacks clawed their way back into the game and struck at their line, it killed Sextons self belief and then Ireland quailed at the last. Ireland were wonderful but the All Blacks, well , whatever they were, it wasn't lucky, they made their tries and they made the pressure on Sexton by tightening the game up.

I thought you would have been a happy saffer presiding over what looks like the best South African team in history but no you have to stab us in the back like a churlish coward.
How very sporting of you.

Again, Stop taking comments out of context.

Your post is a prime example of what I mean in regards to this forum. I respect the All Blacks, ask any of the clued up NZ folk on this forum. No need for the poo-throwing. Our team is not the best we ever had, I think every Saffa would agree with me.

And what's with the name-calling? are you still in school??

 

[donmcdazzle]

Again, Stop taking comments out of context.

Your post is a prime example of what I mean in regards to this forum. I respect the All Blacks, ask any of the clued up NZ folk on this forum. No need for the poo-throwing. Our team is not the best we ever had, I think every Saffa would agree with me.

And what's with the name-calling? are you still in school??

i apologise on behalf of the rational NZ posters.

 

[donmcdazzle]

By the way, Cruden was really good in this one (missed touch aside). He was a constant threat with the ball in hand and made and created several line breaks. He dealt with the rushing defence really well, which can be stifling as a 10.