[EOYT] England vs New Zealand 16/11/13

[Big Ewis]

basically the squad that played in Paris...
Good luck England, it will all be in the defense for England.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

England: M Brown, C Ashton, J Tomkins, B Twelvetrees, B Foden, O Farrell, L Dickson; J Marler, D Hartley, D Cole, J Launchbury, C Lawes, T Wood, C Robshaw, B Vunipola.

Replacements: T Youngs, M Mullan, D Wilson, G Parling, B Morgan, B Youngs, T Flood, A Goode.

 

[TW11DZ]

Dan Cole picked to prop for England on Saturday. Team announced at 10am

England team: Mike Brown; Chris Ashton, Joel Tomkins, Billy Twelvetrees, Ben Foden; Owen Farrell, Lee Dickson; Joe Marler, Dylan Hartley, Dan Cole, Joe Launchbury, Courtney Lawes, Tom Wood, Chris Robshaw (c), Billy Vunipola.

Replacements: Tom Youngs, Matt Mullan, David Wilson, Geoff Parling, Ben Morgan, Ben Youngs, Toby Flood, Alex Goode.

Woops....to late

 

[Atco]

Would the great rugby minds on this site ever consider Flood at 10 and Farrell at centre. Flood lying flat to get the line on the front foot. Farrell seems to like to tackle and is a good distributor but maybe hangs too deep at 10. Just a thought. Must be a reason. Never seen it suggested.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Farrell is a poor 12. Can do it in the prem (though having Hodgson at 10 helps) but he's rubbish compared to just about any other option we have there.


Would've expected Jane to at least have the 23 shirt. Shows the talent of the all blacks when someone like him is left out.

 

[Big Ewis]

 

[Darwin]

Farrell is a poor 12. Can do it in the prem (though having Hodgson at 10 helps) but he's rubbish compared to just about any other option we have there.


Would've expected Jane to at least have the 23 shirt. Shows the talent of the all blacks when someone like him is left out.

The AB's needed specialist midfield cover on the bench, so Jane wasn't really an option. It was really a choice of either Crotty or Saili, with Crotty by far the more reliable option. If Jane was in the 23 jersey they would be in trouble if one of the starting midfielders got injured - Carter would have to play in the midfield, and he hasn't played there for some time...

View attachment 2534

Yes that is Cory Jane.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

The AB's needed specialist midfield cover on the bench, so Jane wasn't really an option. It was really a choice of either Crotty or Saili, with Crotty by far the more reliable option. If Jane was in the 23 jersey they would be in trouble if one of the starting midfielders got injured - Carter would have to play in the midfield, and he hasn't played there for some time...

True enough, I guess, with Smith able to cover the back three from the field.
I'm a big fan of Crotty, though, as well as Jane.

 

[kesh]

Like getting buckets of cold water thrown at our chances with each passing day. Was quietly confident, not in the same way as last year but so-so. Now expecting a 65 minute arm wrestle like the year previous and the AB's to win out comfortably in the end.

Really need to score first. If AB's get a try early this could be painful to watch.

 

[Zed]

Would the great rugby minds on this site ever consider Flood at 10 and Farrell at centre. Flood lying flat to get the line on the front foot. Farrell seems to like to tackle and is a good distributor but maybe hangs too deep at 10. Just a thought. Must be a reason. Never seen it suggested.

It seems to a very English thing, having a 10 playing 12. It just doesn't work. 12 is a very different position to 10 and it requires a different type of player. You stick Farrell in at 12, your game becomes very limited.

 

[nickdnz]

Anyone else starting to get really annoyed that TJ Peranara misses out again?!

Other than one nice bit of defensive work in the last test, Kerr-Barlow has been pants in every AB game he's played - and Peranara has looked a far more complete player during Super Rugby. The only area KB perhaps beats Peranara in is fringe defence, but to be honest Peranara's defense is still very good, better than probably any other halfback in broken play.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

It's quite hard looking forward to a game in which you feel you have no chance of winning.

The one ray of hope for me here is that I believe in this pack, I think it's a strong one which could give some sides trouble come the six nations. Lots of strengths are covered y those guys.

However I do worry for guys Matt Mullan and to an extent Vunipola. New Zealand is just a massive stepup, especially for Mullan. I think both could be mercilessly exploited.

 

[Patchey]

Binny really worries me. I think Morgan should have started because it's clear, despite his massive physical presence, that Vunnipola doesn't have the ability to read the game, pick lines or generally adapt his own playing style that Morgan has.

He's got away with it in the last two games but the All Blacks are such a step up that I really worry for him. He can't just steamroller people like he does in the premiership and the New Zealand coaching staff will have been analysed tape of him from the last two weeks in detail. His game, so far, is fairly one dimensional and I expect the ABs to nullify him fairly easily early on. How he reacts is going to be crucial.

 

[ratsapprentice]

27 - 16 to NZ is my prediction. Although it could easily be a lot more one sided.

I think NZ will be able to exploit the narrowness of our defence and get the ball to Savea and Piutau in space with only Ashton and Foden to get past.
I reckon they should be able to get at least 2 tries in the wide passages.

I reckon England will be able to muster a try - possibly from set-piece - somewhere in the middle of the park.
But doubt we'll see any real exploitation of NZ's defensive system - it'll be down to individual skill/error that we get tries IMHO.

 

[Big Ewis]

27 - 16 to NZ is my prediction. Although it could easily be a lot more one sided.

I think NZ will be able to exploit the narrowness of our defence and get the ball to Savea and Piutau in space with only Ashton and Foden to get past.
I reckon they should be able to get at least 2 tries in the wide passages.

I reckon England will be able to muster a try - possibly from set-piece - somewhere in the middle of the park.
But doubt we'll see any real exploitation of NZ's defensive system - it'll be down to individual skill/error that we get tries IMHO.

looks well judged. I'd quite possibly also imagine, perhaps, a lower score for both sides. England don't score their try and manage about 12 points, and NZ get their 2, maybe 3 tries and amount to a total of about 22-25.

 

[j-dawg]

The last time NZ dished out a beating to England was in the dark days under Steve Borthwicks captainship. Are they overdue, or is this the new norm?

 

[Big Ewis]

The last time NZ dished out a beating to England was in the dark days under Steve Borthwicks captainship. Are they overdue, or is this the new norm?

England have always defended Twickenham with tremendous pride, something I wish we could do in France. NZ most probably won't dismantle England, but they can hit them with little 7 point stings here and there throughout the game, and see a total number on the build on their side of the scoreboard. But no way is NZ going to dominate England here, I really don't think.

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,16024_9025103,00.html

Squad looks fine for England. Good luck fellas ! :cheers:

 

[Larksea]

ive always said I think its a matter of time till Perenara is the #1 halfback in NZ. Kinda frustrating hes had to wait so long to get a chance and it still has not come. I just think this is not a game for debuts, this is a game for revenge! :0

interesting not to see tuilangi? He injured? He obviously played a key role in the game last year I don't think England would have won that game without him.


ENGLAND: Mike Brown, Chris Ashton, Joel Tomkins, Billy Twelvetrees, Ben Foden, Owen Farrell, Lee Dickson; Billy Vunipola, Chris Robshow (capt), Tom Wood, Courtney Lawes, Joe Launchbury, Dan Cole, Dylan Hartley, Joe Marler. Reserves: Tom Youngs, Matt Mullan, David Wilson, Geoff Parling, Ben Morgan, Ben Youngs, Toby Flood, Alex Goode.


NEW ZEALAND: Israel Dagg, Charles Piutau, Ben Smith, Ma'a Nonu, Julian Savea, Daniel Carter, Aaron Smith; Kieran Read, Richie McCaw (capt), Liam Messam, Sam Whitelock, Brodie Retallick, Owen Franks, Keven Mealamu, Tony Woodcock. Reserves: Dane Coles, Wyatt Crockett, Charlie Faumuina, Luke Romano, Steven Luatua, Tawera Kerr-Barlow, Aaron Cruden, Ryan Crotty

Going to be good to see Romano come off the bench and make up for lost time. I do think Cane and Barrett would have been a good idea on the bench. Also still think Ben Franks is a safer scram option than Crockett.

I think TKB has been doing ok, he may not be challenging around the rucks like we are used to seeing at the chiefs but he passes and tackles very well.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

interesting not to see tuilangi? He injured?

Out for most of the season (if not all) with a chest injury he's just had surgery on.

 

[donmcdazzle]

Tuilagi is injured Larksea, good for us i guess he is a pretty damaging player. I agree on Perenara, I thought by next year he would be our starting 9, but he hasn't even had a sniff yet. TKB has been pretty bad in the black jersey, defense aside. He is quite frantic and rushed, and doesn't make the best decisions. He is the new Jimmy Cowan.

I think the English guys on here are being overly pessimistic. If your defense can stand up like last year and you put some pressure on us we are not invincible. Keep the game tight and whack it down our end, get a few penalties early, anyone's game.