England's back line

[ratsapprentice]

Interesting.. Using stats from a different sport to prove he can make it in another sport.... genius.

Oh yeah... that's exactly what I did... you absolute ****ing mong.

Trouble is people are comparing him to SBW when he is nothing like him in his style.

I blame SBW for all this hype.

Yeah - and the stats show that.

 

[TheSaffycen]

Right after the first week of the prem i thought we should look at the guys making a case for Lancaster and those playing themselves out
THE GOOD
Wade has probably made the strongest case too be picked by Lancaster, along with Daly who had a very good game in attack. Simpson showed that he could be a contender for England off the bench with his great running game. Farrell came on against Wasps and gave a great pass for Strettles try and get Saracens over the line by taking the ball on with two hands. Barritt had a very strong defensive game. Northamptons entire backline, Dickson, Myler and Burrell had a great game with Burrell showing he can play 12 for England along side Tuilagi.
THE BAD
Glos entire backline. Twelvetree's had a horrible game from 12 getting isolated and not managing to have any positive impact on the game eventually getting subbed off. Trinder was quite good in defence but made hardly any metres with ball in hand. It was a poor performance on the wings for both May and Sharples.

I haven't seen all the games yet so other people just add what players had great games and others were dissapointing.

 

[Patchey]

Right after the first week of the prem i thought we should look at the guys making a case for Lancaster and those playing themselves out
THE GOOD
Wade has probably made the strongest case too be picked by Lancaster, along with Daly who had a very good game in attack. Simpson showed that he could be a contender for England off the bench with his great running game. Farrell came on against Wasps and gave a great pass for Strettles try and get Saracens over the line by taking the ball on with two hands. Barritt had a very strong defensive game. Northamptons entire backline, Dickson, Myler and Burrell had a great game with Burrell showing he can play 12 for England along side Tuilagi.
THE BAD
Glos entire backline. Twelvetree's had a horrible game from 12 getting isolated and not managing to have any positive impact on the game eventually getting subbed off. Trinder was quite good in defence but made hardly any metres with ball in hand. It was a poor performance on the wings for both May and Sharples.

I haven't seen all the games yet so other people just add what players had great games and others were dissapointing.

Good calls. I really hope Wasps keen attacking like they did yesterday, because its going to make the likes of Wade, Simpson and Daly impossible to ignore if they do. Obviously the team as a whole needs to up its defense. Burrell was also very sharp, although he wasn't tested that much, and I must conceed that Myler was also very calm and managed the game well. However I highly doubt he'll ever produce that kind of performance in a test environment.

Twelvetrees needs someone in that Glos back line to step up and help him out. Just like last season when Burns imploded he still seems to be the sole leader in the backs. I know Hook and Laidlaw are both new and will need to settle in a bit but unless one or both of them starts taking on a bigger role Twelvetrees' game is only going to suffer more. IMO he needs someone inside him to take more responsibility in terms of leading the backs and calling the shots and his game will flourish again.

 

[Peat]

I haven't seen that match yet, but would like to see it and keep an eye out for Wade's alleged defensive positioning issues. If he's not in the right place, Lancaster will ignore him, and rightly so.

The disintegrations means I'd probably ignore what happened with the Saints/Glaws/Exeter players. I mean, it's good to know the guys in 2 of the 3 are sharp and confident, but since they won't see defences like that at international level, it's pointless. As for Glaws, well :lol:

 

[TheSaffycen]

Another thing Wasps have is versatility, and can have a horses for courses team. When they play tigers they can have 12.Leiua 13.Tagicakibau 11.Varndell 14.Wade 15.Masi too combat a large backline

 

[ratsapprentice]

Can't see much point in looking at the first round of games in the context of England... a bit premature IMO.
Need to wait until at least round three before being at all confident that players are in/out of form, and even then it's very early.

 

[TheSaffycen]

Can't see much point in looking at the first round of games in the context of England... a bit premature IMO.
Need to wait until at least round three before being at all confident that players are in/out of form, and even then it's very early.

It was just a bit of fun too just track people every round. Mid way through October is when the squad is announced and that's probably the first time you can tell between players.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Can't see much point in looking at the first round of games in the context of England... a bit premature IMO.
Need to wait until at least round three before being at all confident that players are in/out of form, and even then it's very early.

What else would we talk about then??? I need England talk!!!

 

[ratsapprentice]

New kit coming out soon.

 

[The Jones Boy]

Englands backline needs more foreigners.

 

[Patchey]

Yeah it is a bit premature to seriously talk about performances, but it's also quite fun.

It's good to look at home some England hopeful have changed over pre-season as well I guess.

Englands backline needs more foreigners.

Obvious troll is obvious.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Englands backline needs more foreigners.

I suppose if we want to win the world cup we should be following New zealand's lead and poaching as much as possible.

 

[goodNumber10]

Englands backline needs more foreigners.

 

[barkinghooker]

Reading back on the Barritt calls I totally agree. We all learnt this summer that our wingers are defenders. We just ain't gonna see the flair in our attack like the Aussies and Abs do. Some of England greatest victories have been low scoring games. We won those games in the ruck and making the tackles count.

But how about Manu at 12 and let him play his natural game? He'll run straight, make yards, get pulled into the tackle and 9 or 10 with quick ball will find the space ? Or how about playing two 10's with one at 12 and have them switching ? Do we have any big lump 9 ' s even since its creativity that's being demanded ?
I like how the french mix their 9 ' s and 10's about.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Big lump 9's? The only one I can think of is Mike Phillips - and even then he only worked because he fit into the "MASSIVE HUMANS" tactics used by Wales over the last few years.

When has the French attitude towards half-backs been reliably effective? Can't say I've really ever seen that have a positive outcome, for the team or individuals involved.

You shouldn't really aspire to low scoring victories - great, if you win... but you shouldn't aim for them.

 

[Geordie]

Right after the first week of the prem i thought we should look at the guys making a case for Lancaster and those playing themselves out
THE GOOD
Wade has probably made the strongest case too be picked by Lancaster, along with Daly who had a very good game in attack. Simpson showed that he could be a contender for England off the bench with his great running game. Farrell came on against Wasps and gave a great pass for Strettles try and get Saracens over the line by taking the ball on with two hands. Barritt had a very strong defensive game. Northamptons entire backline, Dickson, Myler and Burrell had a great game with Burrell showing he can play 12 for England along side Tuilagi.
THE BAD

Glos entire backline. Twelvetree's had a horrible game from 12 getting isolated and not managing to have any positive impact on the game eventually getting subbed off. Trinder was quite good in defence but made hardly any metres with ball in hand. It was a poor performance on the wings for both May and Sharples.

I haven't seen all the games yet so other people just add what players had great games and others were dissapointing.

Surely your man Strettle did?

 

[barkinghooker]

I can think of numerous games the french beat the English with a 9 at 10.. can't really account for recent seasons as their whole game is pants right now.

Hey , did we win a world cup playing the 'gatland' way but with just 10 players right ? Put a few offloads in it and suddenly it's exciting stuff.

I'm not saying we should aspire to low scoring games. The Abs pretty much do what England did a decade ago but with redicolously more flair.

 

[TheSaffycen]

Surely your man Strettle did?

Strettle has been tried on the international stage and he just isnt effective. It's wierd as he is a very good try scorer at club level but he's had 14 caps, 1 try and is 31 years old. I like strettle for Saracens but he shouldn't be considered for England, like Ashton. I defended Ashton and said he should have been picked for the NZ test, but he shouldn't play for England again whilst Lancasters playing this way. He is just a waste of time on the wing if all his job is too defend and work in the tight spaces there is no point. If strettle can take his club form internationally then yeah go for it but he just cant

 

[ratsapprentice]

Surely your man Strettle did?

Strettle's try scoring record for Saracens has been shown to be irrelevant - he's been shown to be sub-par at international level on the back of similar "form" several times.
Put him in a team like Sale and you'd never even mention him.

I can think of numerous games the french beat the English with a 9 at 10.. can't really account for recent seasons as their whole game is pants right now.

Hey , did we win a world cup playing the 'gatland' way but with just 10 players right ? Put a few offloads in it and suddenly it's exciting stuff.

I'm not saying we should aspire to low scoring games. The Abs pretty much do what England did a decade ago but with redicolously more flair.

Two things:

1) the French half-backs grow up with a different attitude towards their positions, basically the opposite of everyone else's. You can't emulate it unless you start teaching it from a young age.
2) I can't think of a single time when the French have been successful because of their 9/10 system.

We didn't really play anything like the way Gatland does - his success is largely down to having the perfect set of backs for his gameplan.
We don't have the players to do that without compromising their quality. Aside from 10 and 15 they have had one of the biggest backlines in the history of the game.

What are you saying then? Defend and forget about "flair" sounds like abandoning ambition (in terms of style anyway) to me...?

 

[TheSaffycen]

I can think of numerous games the french beat the English with a 9 at 10.. can't really account for recent seasons as their whole game is pants right now.

Hey , did we win a world cup playing the 'gatland' way but with just 10 players right ? Put a few offloads in it and suddenly it's exciting stuff.

I'm not saying we should aspire to low scoring games. The Abs pretty much do what England did a decade ago but with redicolously more flair.

It couldn't work that way as we don't have a 9 who can control the game like a 10. Parra is a great scrum half but a bog standard 10 at intl' level, who could we play there ? Care is a 9 who loves too try and snipe the edges and would just run with the ball constantly, Youngs the same, Dickson has no where near enough passing ability, Wigglesworth would be a good kicking 10 but couldn't play make.
The All Blacks normally have the best player in the world in every position, and if not they can still pass a ball perfectly timed and weighted. The All Blacks are in a league of their own when it comes too converting chances, the rest of the game they don't even have the ball. They also don''t play 10 man rugby, it's a complete 15 man style.