Pacific nations (im)possible line-ups

[TRF_Ezequiel]

7s is the same as Union, you can't play for one nation and in 7s and play for another one in XV's!

Okay!

 

[Amobokoboko]

Well it depends I reckon, if a player only had 1 cap , he could be picked up by his home nation and give some advice to the youngsters in the squad.
A kind of mental coaching.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

That won't be a problem but playing for 2 different countries should not be allowed, no matter what the reason is.

 

[Amobokoboko]

That makes it tricky, because if you would follow my idea. those players should be capped to get into the national side and coach the youngsters.
As I think coaching ( as a coach) in combo with playing ( competition) isn't that easy. Or the one or the other one.

 

[mohamed_ali12]

Players should be allowed to play for a nation depending on

a) country of birth, or
b) nationality of parents, or
c) having trained for at least 3 years before the age of 21

Shontayne Hape should not play for England.

 

[Shaggy]

Well it depends I reckon, if a player only had 1 cap , he could be picked up by his home nation and give some advice to the youngsters in the squad.
A kind of mental coaching.

I'm not so sure about this, as it will open up a whole different can of worms, for example, if player has parents from a nation other than the one that he is born and brought up in, which nation is his home nation ... if a player is born in one nation, but is brought up in another country,which nation is their home nation?

This situation could get quite farcical quite quickly ... assuming I was good enough to play international rugby, under the current rules, I could play for NZ (being born there and brought up there), and England (having an English grand parent) - if I chose to play for the All Blacks, and it takes the All Black selectors one game to recognise their mistake, and I took one too many bumps to the head, and decided to play for England, why should I be allowed to

There's actually nothing to stop any player doing what you're proposing - mentoring younger players from any country as a coach (not a player)

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Apart from what you are saying now, this is a different issue. This is about players representing Tonga for instance, after already representing the All Blacks.

 

[Seaton]

Well it depends I reckon, if a player only had 1 cap , he could be picked up by his home nation and give some advice to the youngsters in the squad.
A kind of mental coaching.

Well I agree in general that one shouldn't be allowed to 'swap countries', I think there is one or two circumstances where you could feel sorry for a player


For example, player Wayne King is born in say England, lives there for 10 years and then moves to Wales with his family (of whom contains a Welsh lineage through father and English through mother)
He lives there for 8 years and starts his professional career there. He has a deep affection for his birth and adopted country, and due to his patriotism, is compelled to accept a call-up from which-ever country calls first

He then comes on as a 75th minute substitute, but after this game falls out with the coach/is deemed not good enough and doesn't make an appearance for 5 years, and let's say that it was England he was capped for

Wayne King still lives and Wales, and would love to represent the nation of which he is a citizen


I think there should be a special provision for exceptional circumatances, where a commitee decides

But none of this pish 10+ caps and nae longer good enough for a country you never had any real connection to begin with



On a side note I am elligible and would represent these countries in the following order

Scotland
South Africa
Germany
Zambia
Zimbabwe
England

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Nice to see the countries you list haha. If I do that with the countries I would be eligible to play for, it would be like this:

- South Africa
- Uruguay
- Netherlands
- Germany

 

[Shaggy]

Players should be allowed to play for a nation depending on

a) country of birth, or
b) nationality of parents, or
c) having trained for at least 3 years before the age of 21

Shontayne Hape should not play for England.

This pretty close to how the regulations are now for the nation you initially choose to (and currently can only) play for as per the IRB regulations

http://www.irb.com/mm/document/lawsregs/regulations/04/23/28/42328_pdf.pdf

REGULATION 8. ELIGIBILITY TO PLAY FOR NATIONAL REPRESENTATIVE TEAMS

8.1 Subject to Regulation
8.2, a Player may only play for the senior fifteen-aside National Representative Team, the next senior fifteen-a-side National
Representative Team and the senior National Representative Sevens Team
of the Union of the country in which:
(a) he was born; or
(b) one parent or grandparent was born; or
(c) he has completed thirty six consecutive months of Residence
immediately preceding the time of playing.

The only differences being (b), where a grand parent qualifies you, and (c), where it talks about residency, rather than training time or Rugby union club registration ... I can certainly see advantages in your suggestion, particularly for the Rugby union clubs, who could pick up Rugby League internationals from other countries, and not have to worry about them getting called away on international duty

... interestingly, under the current regulations, players such as Martin Johnson would not have been able to play for England, having been a Junior All Black before returning to England.

 

[lucky number 7]

Im eligible for.
Ireland
France
Tunisia (I think)
And Corsica if it ever becomes independent

 

[gingergenius]

You pick a nation and stick with it, pure and simple.

It's not as if NZ poaches a lot of Tongan talent. Besides Lauaki, I can't think of anyone - and do you really need Lauaki when you've got Latu, Maka, T-Pole & Hala'ufia vying for back row spots?

Tonga is a small country with 100,000 people. I don't need to compare it to anywhere else to show how tiny that is. Unfortunately, as a national side, you have to make do with what's available - and they seem to go along very nicely.

Anyone outside of Tonga with Tongan ancestry should be considered a bonus, if and only if they chose to represent Tonga. If they don't then that's tough.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Im eligible for.
Ireland
France
Tunisia (I think)
And Corsica if it ever becomes independent

England (born)
Scotland (My Dad's mom)
Wales (Will be 36months from this September) for me

 

[gingergenius]

england (born, ancestry, residency)
egypt (dad born)
ireland (grandma)

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Let me be a bit more specific then

South Africa (residency and marital connection)
Netherlands (born)
Uruguay (mother)
Germany (grandma from my dad's side)
Austria (grandpa from my dad's side)

 

[TRF_Olyy]

egypt (dad born)

Aha, you should join their team!
I want my cousin to try out for Ghanas team (his dads from Accra)

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Aha, you should join their team!
I want my cousin to try out for Ghanas team (his dads from Accra)

He emailed the Egypt Rugby Union but for some reason it didn't go through

 

[TRF_Olyy]

He emailed the Egypt Rugby Union but for some reason it didn't go through

Topical!

 

[187]

... what the article (and the Tongan Prime Minister) don't point out, is that the rules actually protect the players that have already represented their nation from being poached by the bigger rugby nations. This prevents the "Frank Bunce" scenario, where he played for years in NZ, wasn't deemed good enough for the All Blacks until he played for Samoa in the 1991 world cup, and beat Wales, and the incumbent All Black outside centres retired (Joe Stanley) or went to league (Craig Innes)

The players knew this rule when they chose to represent the country they chose to represent - no it's not ideal for the smaller nations, but their are better ways to help them improve/maintain their player strength (such as including their sides in major competitions/providing a revenue stream)

That's a great point, the Frank Bunce one! never thought of it that way. Maybe have a stand down period of 3 years? The big nations would not try poach someone if they had to stand down for 3 years, heck you could be a totally different player in that amount of time.

Shontayne Hape should not play for England.

Yeah, that's straight wrong how Hape is in there. I can't and don't even consider him an Englishman, same goes for what's his face.. the other kiwi bloke that used to be Holwell's bum boy in the Hurricanes?!

You pick a nation and stick with it, pure and simple.

It's not as if NZ poaches a lot of Tongan talent. Besides Lauaki, I can't think of anyone - and do you really need Lauaki when you've got Latu, Maka, T-Pole & Hala'ufia vying for back row spots?

Well Lauaki is only the most recent, you have guys like 'Isitolo Maka, Jonah Lomu, Pita Alatini, Sam Tu'itupou and Doug Howlett to a certain degree through his Tongan mother.

I think the thing that draws in some (I'm not saying all) is the lure of the Black Jersey or the Wallabies Jersey, their more prestigious than an 'Ikale Tahi jersey. You get a lot more too with it, money, fame, 5* treatment, you get to play against the best week in, week out.. The 'Ikale Tahi's recent tour to Europe was a 4 week tour in total I think but the players only got paid $700 each for the weeks they were playing which was 2 games.. Which one would you choose? I'm a Tongan through and through but heck, it'd be a pretty tough decision.

An example of the above is Taniela Moa whom I've heard is a Tongan through and through. But I've heard the guy is playing hard to get, although he's declared himself available to Tonga, he hasn't yet actually made any concrete arrangements and the players think he's just holding off hoping he get's the call-up to the AB's. It's RWC year and he hasn't even played a single game for Tonga yet to try and gel with the team. I hope the coaching and selection team don't pick him, for the sake of the other players that have been there week in, week out for the past year or so. They must pick the guys that made them their first priority because Moa obviously isn't.

There's also a lot of politics involved in the TRU apparently, fobby as stuff which has angered a lot of our top tier players who either refuse or aren't allowed to play for the 'Ikale Tahi now. Pacific Rugby is a mess... Which ever team these players choose to play for, patriotism has a little to do with it, but it's all about the money... I wish some billionaire would throw some money down and see how that changes the game... If only I had invented Facebook, that guy could have been me haha

But yes, at the end of the day, they chose to represent one country and they all knew when they made that decision they wouldn't be allowed to represent anybody else.. Tough bikkies..

 

[Tomsey]

I'm not so sure about this, as it will open up a whole different can of worms, for example, if player has parents from a nation other than the one that he is born and brought up in, which nation is his home nation ... if a player is born in one nation, but is brought up in another country,which nation is their home nation?

This situation could get quite farcical quite quickly ... assuming I was good enough to play international rugby, under the current rules, I could play for NZ (being born there and brought up there), and England (having an English grand parent) - if I chose to play for the All Blacks, and it takes the All Black selectors one game to recognise their mistake, and I took one too many bumps to the head, and decided to play for England, why should I be allowed to

There's actually nothing to stop any player doing what you're proposing - mentoring younger players from any country as a coach (not a player)

I don't think this situation really applies. As far as I’m aware the rule change would only apply to players who have heritage in a pacific nation (Samoa, Fiji and Tonga) and have played international rugby someone else. Your New Zealand to England switch would still not be allowed. Why should the Pacific nations get special treatment? Two reasons. 1. They struggle in other areas (budget/population) and anything that can make them more competitive should be given serious consideration. 2. They are the getting players poached. The situation is quite common. A young talented Tongan player gets a scholarship to a Australian boarding school and makes the Australian schoolboys rugby squad and continues into the Wallabies. It would be stupid for the kid to decline the offer because he wants to play for Tonga as he would be turning his back on a lot of money. I can't see the All Blacks poaching talented English youths to try and turn them into All Blacks and even if they decided it was a good idea it would still be against the rules for them to return to England under the rule changes because, as I said, the rules only apply to Pacific nations. The Hape situation is a completely different debate, as is the international transfer market one, because you would likely only see older players (Aenesi/Lauaki/Jerry Collins) who aren't going to play for the All Blacks again anyway (even if they were allowed to switch back-which they aren't) who would be agreeing to change countries and again, the rule would only apply to Pacific nations.