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England World Cup Squad

I would love to know how in a week he's broken three players in the same role/mold. "Right boys, Freddie's games been off, keep running at him till he breaks or gets it right"...... Five minutes later "Boss, we've broke the wrong one's".
 
Looking at the Marcus Smith at 15 comments gives me Damian McKenzie vibes, but in reverse.

Smith = A 10 who is trying to be molded into a 15

Dmac = A 15 who is trying to be molded into a 10
 
Shame Lawes 100th cap is in such a non event game. But a fantastic career anyway.

There really shouldn't be any excuses for lack of leadership / direction in this squad.

Youngs is our most capped player

Farrell 3rd

Cole 4th

Lawes 5th

That's 4 of our 5 centurions

Care 8th

Ford 11th

Marler 13th

George 14th =

Off the top of my head, Sinckler, Genge, Binny, Itoje, Manu and Daly are all over 50 caps too. So was Watson.

Haven't we just fielded our most experienced ever 23? Even if some of those are past their best, all that experience means those players ought to be leading problem solving on the pitch and taking the coaches to task off it. Who's toeing the party line, who's challenging and speaking out in camp?

Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.
 
Old Hooker said:
Shame Lawes 100th cap is in such a non event game. But a fantastic career anyway.

There really shouldn't be any excuses for lack of leadership / direction in this squad.

Youngs is our most capped player

Farrell 3rd

Cole 4th

Lawes 5th

That's 4 of our 5 centurions

Care 8th

Ford 11th

Marler 13th

George 14th =

Off the top of my head, Sinckler, Genge, Binny, Itoje, Manu and Daly are all over 50 caps too. So was Watson.

Haven't we just fielded our most experienced ever 23? Even if some of those are past their best, all that experience means those players ought to be leading problem solving on the pitch and taking the coaches to task off it. Who's toeing the party line, who's challenging and speaking out in camp?

Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.
Click to expand...
Our capped experienced players are kind of rubbish though. Some of those have never shown leadership throughout their caps and players like Youngs have about 50 caps too many for their ability and skills.

It's clear that SB is completely out of his depth but the way Eddie jones has screwed us is going to be evident for the next 3 years or so.
 
Noonz said:
Looking at the Marcus Smith at 15 comments gives me Damian McKenzie vibes, but in reverse.

Smith = A 10 who is trying to be molded into a 15

Dmac = A 15 who is trying to be molded into a 10
Click to expand...
On this, I dont think smith should be a 15, or at least not untill he gets some real club rugby there wich wont happen because he is a banging 10, but I think his skill set would be very fun there.
 
Don't Skip Leg Day said:
Our capped experienced players are kind of rubbish though. Some of those have never shown leadership throughout their caps and players like Youngs have about 50 caps too many for their ability and skills.

It's clear that SB is completely out of his depth but the way Eddie jones has screwed us is going to be evident for the next 3 years or so.
Click to expand...
I just dont vibe with this. Eddie was bad, deserved to be sacked.But he is gone.

Cant just keep blaming problems on him, if this squad was dross borthwick had time to bring in new players and at least get the process started, especially knowing he was likely never getting fired after this world cup. Borthwick picked this squad, its on him, and he hasnt really made any steps to change the direction of the team.
 
Old Hooker said:
Shame Lawes 100th cap is in such a non event game. But a fantastic career anyway.

There really shouldn't be any excuses for lack of leadership / direction in this squad.

Youngs is our most capped player

Farrell 3rd

Cole 4th

Lawes 5th

That's 4 of our 5 centurions

Care 8th

Ford 11th

Marler 13th

George 14th =

Off the top of my head, Sinckler, Genge, Binny, Itoje, Manu and Daly are all over 50 caps too. So was Watson.

Haven't we just fielded our most experienced ever 23? Even if some of those are past their best, all that experience means those players ought to be leading problem solving on the pitch and taking the coaches to task off it. Who's toeing the party line, who's challenging and speaking out in camp?

Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.
Click to expand...
Personally, I think its farrell. Guy is the leader, however, guy is also a coaches pet and toes the line to perfection. Works at saracens because its a well oiled machine and mccall is great. When the situation is a **** show? Doesnt help.

Might be completely wrong though, just a feeling from how every coach speaks about him.
 
Booboobang said:
I just dont vibe with this. Eddie was bad, deserved to be sacked.But he is gone.

Cant just keep blaming problems on him, if this squad was dross borthwick had time to bring in new players and at least get the process started, especially knowing he was likely never getting fired after this world cup. Borthwick picked this squad, its on him, and he hasnt really made any steps to change the direction of the team.
Click to expand...
I was blaming Eddie for the very limited pool of experienced players and blaming him for the ones he invested time and caps into having a low ceiling.

If you took over any of the other top tier teams pre World Cup, you'd have a load of experienced and talented players to call upon who have been performing. Our experienced players haven't performed at international level for 3 years or so and still got capped etc.

I think SB is wildly out of his depth but the reality was he could never call up a load of 0 or 1 cap players as it would be a disaster so had to use the current experienced players who are dross.
 
Don't Skip Leg Day said:
I was blaming Eddie for the very limited pool of experienced players and blaming him for the ones he invested time and caps into having a low ceiling.

If you took over any of the other top tier teams pre World Cup, you'd have a load of experienced and talented players to call upon who have been performing. Our experienced players haven't performed at international level for 3 years or so and still got capped etc.

I think SB is wildly out of his depth but the reality was he could never call up a load of 0 or 1 cap players as it would be a disaster so had to use the current experienced players who are dross.
Click to expand...
Did Eddie really have any players even now he could have called upon with a higher ceiling. I think for the most part he picked the best players for a system and his eye for who wasn't quite good enough for that tended to be correct.

I think his views on Dombrandt and Smith for example have broadly proven to be correct on a system first mentality. Fab players in a system that suits but not how England play. Like others have said you either pick a system and then the best players for that. (Which Borthwick is failing at) or look at your players available and build a system around them more like Saints/Quins do.

I think Eddie and Borthwick fall into the system first approach with out necessarily having the players to do it. Which is the exact opposite of what Eddie did with Japan, where you only have so many players so you can't go system first. If you don't have the players then like England currently you have to go here's my players let's find a system that fits them.
 
I totally agree on your last paragraph, but I do think Eddie has to carry the can for where we are with certain players and positions.

Scrum half has been done to death and the clusterf*ck of our centre pairing changing for what felt like every other game is very much his doing. For example, Marchant has been one of our better players over the past few weeks, but could have been fully embedded in the side well before now.
 
BPM said:
I totally agree on your last paragraph, but I do think Eddie has to carry the can for where we are with certain players and positions.

Scrum half has been done to death and the clusterf*ck of our centre pairing changing for what felt like every other game is very much his doing. For example, Marchant has been one of our better players over the past few weeks, but could have been fully embedded in the side well before now.
Click to expand...
Marchant is more of a bolter i think. I bit like Lewis Ludlam. They are probably not in either Eddies or Borthwicks plans but have played there way onto the plane. Even on here i doubt many would have them as first choice when i think they should be currently.

I don't think anyone can pick Englands best centre pairing without getting 101 different combinations and that's the same issue Eddie and Borthwick have.

What would be Englands best centre pairing including those not in the squad? I think everyone has a different view.
 
I find it hard to care about injuries it feels like no matter what happens we are just as likely to have a group stage exit as a semi-final exit and that hasn't changed much since the last year. We ain't winning the world cup and are in a cripple fight on our side of the draw.
 
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