England World Cup Squad

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Yeah it's a no for Lawes at 8 for me. In theory you could get him eating like a South African and bulking up to cover lock for this WC but I read before about how he struggles so much to add weight due to his high metabolism.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Lawes' carrying in the tight isn't great, as well - very upright - and that's where an 8 makes more carries than 6 does. Great at weak shoulders and looking for the offload, not so much doing a 2m carry into traffic
Curry would be the better option of the two, these days, but even then: Mercer has looked fantastic in the Top 14 and Champions cup

Yeah agree with this. If, through the warm ups, Curry, Underhill and Lawes were all tearing up trees while Dombrandt continued to be poor and Mercer couldn't translate his form to international rugby then I'd be going with Curry at 8 long before Lawes; 6. Lawes, 7. Underhill 8. Curry.

Really hoping Mercer performs, though.

 

[Geordie]

i see Radwan has had an operation on his hand, planned by the falcons...so i guess he knew he wasnt in the squad.

 

[Which Tyler]

I'd rather he wasn't included to be honest, fantastic in what he does and I can't think of anyone who can do the role in the same manner and he is probably what's been missing post WC for large parts, I just can't look past all his concussion/head issues and fear for the negative impact that could have on him and his loved ones, there comes a time when you think a player just needs to look after themselves.

I'd be more comfortable if he retired from professional rugby; but he hasn't, and if fit and available for selection, then he has to go to the RWC IMO.

Not playing rugby is for him, his family, and his doctors; not his coaches.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Random thought that I've never considered before; do the players get paid at all by the RFU while they're in camp, or only match fees?

Just saw some photos of Hassell-Collins and Pearson training and it just seems a little odd that they'd be in a training camp while receiving no income from anywhere. Surely players should receive a bit of payment during Summer camps if they're training instead of being on holiday.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Random thought that I've never considered before; do the players get paid at all by the RFU while they're in camp, or only match fees?

Just saw some photos of Hassell-Collins and Pearson training and it just seems a little odd that they'd be in a training camp while receiving no income from anywhere. Surely players should receive a bit of payment during Summer camps if they're training instead of being on holiday.

OHC will be getting paid by Tigers now, I think

So according to this article:

Any players outside of the 23-man squad wouldn't earn anything, even if they participate in squad training throughout the seven-week long tournament.

It says that the players rejigged it so everyone gets a cut of the money rather than just the 23 on the pitch, however doesn't say if that was a permanent thing for just for the 2021 6N - I would guess it was a one off for the 6N and that no one gets paid for training.

England squad agree equal pay for Six Nations - Rugby World

A five player committee of senior squad members have agreed on a new pay structure for the 2021 Six Nations, with equal pay throughout the England squad.

www.rugbyworld.com

Does raise a weird point though: If LI have been suspended and are no longer part of the RFU, is Pearson even a registered player anymore?

 

[Saintjay]

Yeah it's a no for Lawes at 8 for me. In theory you could get him eating like a South African and bulking up to cover lock for this WC but I read before about how he struggles so much to add weight due to his high metabolism.

Definitely i don't think big Courts is much heavier now than Curry or Ludlum. Both can play 8 and carry in traffic. Certainly equally as good as Dombrandt i think. Who is good / better in the open. Just he seems prone to some shocking games. Where in my view Curry and Ludlum are pretty dependable and steady.

 

[Geordie]

Big Ted must be able to cover 8. Be like having a young Vermuelen at 8

I think everyone is hoping Mercer hits the ground running...my jury is still out on Dombrandt at this level. Hes done better than i think many have actually given him credit for...but i think thats because hes done better in the tight, dark art areas (breakdown etc) than the flashy running and handling hes more known for. BUT...im not sure if he'll hit the heights we hope. And how long do you give him.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

George Martin has played 8 as has Chessum

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

To be honest I've been put off T. Hill a bit recently after seeing some stats:

Carries made per 80 minutes:
Ludlam - 12.2
T. Curry - 10.2
Pearson - 9.4
Earl - 9.4
B. Curry - 7.4
Underhill - 7.3
Hill - 7.2

Metres made per 80 minutes:
Earl - 43.5
T. Curry - 36.7
Ludlam - 35.0
Pearson - 30.2
Underhill - 27.2
B. Curry - 22.5
Hill - 19.2

Defenders beaten per 80 minutes:
Earl - 2.2
T. Curry - 2.1
Pearson - 2.1
Ludlam - 1.7
B. Curry - 1.1
Underhill - 0.7
Hill - 0.7

Tackles made per 80 minutes:
T. Curry - 17.0
B. Curry - 16.9
Pearson - 14.3
Earl - 13.0
Ludlam - 12.9
Underhill - 12.4
Hill - 7.0

Turnovers made per 80 minutes:
T. Curry - 2.1
Earl - 2.0
B. Curry - 1.6
Pearson - 1.3
Underhill - 1.2
Ludlam - 1.1
Hill - 0.2 (He's made 2 turnovers in 809 minutes of rugby...)

Tackle %
B. Curry, Ludlam, Pearson - 94%
T. Curry - 93%
Earl - 90%
Underhill - 84%
Hill - 76%

Now I'm fully aware that in rugby stats don't tell the whole story, but it's pretty damning that Hill is at the bottom of every single one.

 

[Reiser99]

Tackle percentage is especially worrying, especially with less tackles.

Edit: If he averages 7 tackles a game and misses 25% he's missing roughly 2 tackles out of 7 per game.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Tackle percentage is especially worrying, especially with less tackles.

Edit: If he averages 7 tackles a game and misses 25% he's missing roughly 2 tackles out of 7 per game.

The 7 tackles per game are the 76% that he's successfully making, so it's closer to he's missing 2 out of 9 per game. But yeah, worrying.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

George Martin has played 8 as has Chessum

Was thinking Chessum but couldn't remember if I was mixing him up with his brother

Realistically I think Dombrandt and Mercer both tour and we don't really need to think about it - more likely to see Mercer at 6 than Lawes/Curry/Ludlam at 8

 

[TRF_Olyy]

To be honest I've been put off T. Hill a bit recently after seeing some stats:

Carries made per 80 minutes:
Ludlam - 12.2
T. Curry - 10.2
Pearson - 9.4
Earl - 9.4
B. Curry - 7.4
Underhill - 7.3
Hill - 7.2

Metres made per 80 minutes:
Earl - 43.5
T. Curry - 36.7
Ludlam - 35.0
Pearson - 30.2
Underhill - 27.2
B. Curry - 22.5
Hill - 19.2

Defenders beaten per 80 minutes:
Earl - 2.2
T. Curry - 2.1
Pearson - 2.1
Ludlam - 1.7
B. Curry - 1.1
Underhill - 0.7
Hill - 0.7

Tackles made per 80 minutes:
T. Curry - 17.0
B. Curry - 16.9
Pearson - 14.3
Earl - 13.0
Ludlam - 12.9
Underhill - 12.4
Hill - 7.0

Turnovers made per 80 minutes:
T. Curry - 2.1
Earl - 2.0
B. Curry - 1.6
Pearson - 1.3
Underhill - 1.2
Ludlam - 1.1
Hill - 0.2 (He's made 2 turnovers in 809 minutes of rugby...)

Tackle %
B. Curry, Ludlam, Pearson - 94%
T. Curry - 93%
Earl - 90%
Underhill - 84%
Hill - 76%

Now I'm fully aware that in rugby stats don't tell the whole story, but it's pretty damning that Hill is at the bottom of every single one.

It's the Currys world and we're just living in it (think I bought my old laptop from Currys World)

For all the media talk of Earl you'd expect him to be far ahead on all the stats - really it's only the linebreaks (i.e. defenders beaten/metres made per carry) that sets him apart but I'd be amazed if that ability carries across to international defences/Borthwick's gameplanning

Genuinely surprised to see Hill doing so poorly on the tackle numbers and carries per 80 - I always got the impression he was tackling everything and offering himself as a carrier at every ruck he's not at the bottom of. Would be interesting to see his rucks hit stats

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

For all the media talk of Earl you'd expect him to be far ahead on all the stats - really it's only the linebreaks (i.e. defenders beaten/metres made per carry) that sets him apart but I'd be amazed if that ability carries across to international defences/Borthwick's gameplanning

That's interesting, because I actually took almost exactly the opposite away from these stats with regards to Earl. Think he gets criticised a lot for being a bit of a show pony (similar to Simmonds) so was pleasantly surprised to see him 2nd for turnovers made and above the likes of Ludlam and Underhill for tackles made, both of whom are well known for their defence.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

That's interesting, because I actually took almost exactly the opposite away from these stats with regards to Earl. Think he gets criticised a lot for being a bit of a show pony (similar to Simmonds) so was pleasantly surprised to see him 2nd for turnovers made and above the likes of Ludlam and Underhill for tackles made, both of whom are well known for their defence.

I guess media perception vs fan perception - the media have been all in on him all season (in the final, or maybe semi, they were saying he'd be starting for any international side in the world, for example)

Tackles did surprise me but not turnovers - I knows he's been killing it there that season
Was surprised to see Ben and Tom so high in that regard, feel like they've both had quieter seasons at the breakdown than usual

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Do players not know in advance if they're getting called up?
Cause they started training today but Marler is still on holiday in France

Unless that's why they've named four looseheads - cause they know he's missing today

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Do players not know in advance if they're getting called up?
Cause they started training today but Marler is still on holiday in France

Unless that's why they've named four looseheads - cause they know he's missing today

99% sure they knew beforehand. Looked like some training was getting done as early as mid-day today. There's no way the coaching staff expected everyone to drop what they were doing the minute the squad was announced and be ready for training a couple of hours later; some physically couldn't have been there in time.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Underhill's shoulders are genuinely absurd.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

.

To be honest I've been put off T. Hill a bit recently after seeing some stats:

Carries made per 80 minutes:
Ludlam - 12.2
T. Curry - 10.2
Pearson - 9.4
Earl - 9.4
B. Curry - 7.4
Underhill - 7.3
Hill - 7.2

Metres made per 80 minutes:
Earl - 43.5
T. Curry - 36.7
Ludlam - 35.0
Pearson - 30.2
Underhill - 27.2
B. Curry - 22.5
Hill - 19.2

Defenders beaten per 80 minutes:
Earl - 2.2
T. Curry - 2.1
Pearson - 2.1
Ludlam - 1.7
B. Curry - 1.1
Underhill - 0.7
Hill - 0.7

Tackles made per 80 minutes:
T. Curry - 17.0
B. Curry - 16.9
Pearson - 14.3
Earl - 13.0
Ludlam - 12.9
Underhill - 12.4
Hill - 7.0

Turnovers made per 80 minutes:
T. Curry - 2.1
Earl - 2.0
B. Curry - 1.6
Pearson - 1.3
Underhill - 1.2
Ludlam - 1.1
Hill - 0.2 (He's made 2 turnovers in 809 minutes of rugby...)

Tackle %
B. Curry, Ludlam, Pearson - 94%
T. Curry - 93%
Earl - 90%
Underhill - 84%
Hill - 76%

Now I'm fully aware that in rugby stats don't tell the whole story, but it's pretty damning that Hill is at the bottom of every single one.

And Underhill not far above in each. Below par, misleading stats or the Bath factor?

Hill's a good player but TBH I've never quite seen what all the fuss is about.

Lawes at 8 shouldn't even be a conversation. 8 requires some very particular skills at the base of the scrum etc and while there are a lot of versatile back rowers around, he's not one of them. If Mercer goes OK in camp / warm ups he's the no1 choice - while any of Ludlam / Earl and Curry might be seen as back ups, with Dombrandt a short hop across La Manche as injury standby. Would prefer to see 2 specialists in the squad but given Dombrandt didn't really seize his chance I wouldn't be shocked if we went with just one.

I wouldn't 100% discount Binny either. McCall backs his players, but isn't given to hype, and he reckons Binny will be fit - the pool matches give any player in his position the opportunity to get decent minutes before the serious stuff begins. A fit, annoyed Binny steaming off the bench for 20 minutes has its merits. Times has previously reported that Borthwick's prepared to give him every chance to prove fitness while Binny, unsurprisingly, has publicly played down talk of any issues between them.