Slade is actually a defensive leader. I think that's why Jones persisted with him so long. It's just shame we haven't seen the attacking ability as much like we saw with Exeter.
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England vs Fiji 26th August 23
- Thread starter Don't Skip Leg Day
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Based on the warmups it's gotta be Manu/Marchant
But then I'd be looking at putting Marchant on the right wing because Malins has been guff,
Would've been good to see Daly given a shot at 13 - imagine it'll be a May/Daly wing partnership now, though, even if they do both play left wing
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And haven't been at their best for over a full cycle...
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One the things the commentators kept banging on about yesterday was the way the Fijians kept making yards after the initial tackle.
It's a good point, that extra ground really matters. Either comes from raw power, speed or leg drive, all coupled with aggression and determination.
One the reasons I always liked Watson is that he usually accelerated into contact selflessly gaining those extra few yards that others could potentially profit from.
Where were our carriers? It's a team wide issue but if the pack's not going forward then you're swimming uphill. Earl has a bit of leg drive and determination but lacks the raw power for an 8. Dan got his hands on the ball a bit but is just too lightweight and raw. Etc. One of the reasons people are so excited about CCS is that he's a big unit who might just give that aggressive go forward. Similarly Pearson who's got both size and pace. It's why people were so excited about Barbeary too. Inexperienced at this level though they are Mercer and T Willis would almost certainly offer more go forward potential than any of the 8 options in the squad. Genge seems to have succumbed to Bristol Syndrome and when was the last time Itoje made 5m with 3 defenders hanging off him?
Obviously there's much more to rugby than this, but it's a bloody hard game to win from the back foot.
EDIT. And when someone is fighting in the tackle, why is support so slow to arrive?
It's a good point, that extra ground really matters. Either comes from raw power, speed or leg drive, all coupled with aggression and determination.
One the reasons I always liked Watson is that he usually accelerated into contact selflessly gaining those extra few yards that others could potentially profit from.
Where were our carriers? It's a team wide issue but if the pack's not going forward then you're swimming uphill. Earl has a bit of leg drive and determination but lacks the raw power for an 8. Dan got his hands on the ball a bit but is just too lightweight and raw. Etc. One of the reasons people are so excited about CCS is that he's a big unit who might just give that aggressive go forward. Similarly Pearson who's got both size and pace. It's why people were so excited about Barbeary too. Inexperienced at this level though they are Mercer and T Willis would almost certainly offer more go forward potential than any of the 8 options in the squad. Genge seems to have succumbed to Bristol Syndrome and when was the last time Itoje made 5m with 3 defenders hanging off him?
Obviously there's much more to rugby than this, but it's a bloody hard game to win from the back foot.
EDIT. And when someone is fighting in the tackle, why is support so slow to arrive?
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Tom Curry's biggest work on from EJ was metres after contact and he's become a much better carrier for it (especially now he's slimmed back down a bit post-EJ)
Of course he's only got one leg ATM so that point is moot
Ludlam fights for every inch, still think he needs to be involved in the 23 - Earl was anonymous yesterday (then again, who wasn't?) so don't think he necessarily untouchable as Billy's replacement, but I feel like Ludlam would've gone to 8 off the bench if he was in contention
Lawes is a soft carrier - great at recycling the ball but not so much the hard hards, he hits the deck early in contact
Willis and Earl better running at weak shoulders and gaps
Of course he's only got one leg ATM so that point is moot
Ludlam fights for every inch, still think he needs to be involved in the 23 - Earl was anonymous yesterday (then again, who wasn't?) so don't think he necessarily untouchable as Billy's replacement, but I feel like Ludlam would've gone to 8 off the bench if he was in contention
Lawes is a soft carrier - great at recycling the ball but not so much the hard hards, he hits the deck early in contact
Willis and Earl better running at weak shoulders and gaps
A lot of blame can be put on the coaching staff and I definitely think they were the wrong group for the job.
But let's go back to 2016... The England team weren't as bad as they are now when EJ took over. They just needed to beef the pack back up.... So they made Hartley captain, bought back a motivated Haskell and were lucky that a bunch of Saracens players were peaking (Billy in particular). It worked for a few years, but the early signs of decay was there even before the 2019 RWC.
Yes, they caught fire and made the final in that tournament. We had a fit Tuilagi playing great rugby, and Underhil/Curry who both kind of came out of no where at the perfect time. I also think we caught a bunch of teams off guard who were not at their best at the time... let's not forget that we looked pretty average for the two previous 6N tournaments. I think the decay started a lot earlier than many of us would like to think. A lot of these players (Itoje, Billy, Farrel etc) were starting to not look like world class players as early as 2018 IMO.
The RWC final shown to us that we were indeed a lot further away than we wanted to believe after beating an OK Australian team (that we were beating all the time anyway) and a NZ team that weren't as good as they had been in the past with a lot of ageing players set to retire.
We then gradually started to decline more and more after the world cup... You could even see it at club level with our biggest teams getting drubbed by European teams. And it has been downhill ever since. We have basically had no good generations coming up through the ranks for a long time... While the likes of France and Ireland have had amazing u20 teams in recent times. Something has gone wrong with our schools and academy system in general... We are simply not producing enough world class quality players and have been leap frogged by our competitors because of that.
Look at the player shortage at key positions. The best tight head prop we've got is probably Kyle Sinkler who can't scrummage to save his life. No decent 12s, no decent enforcers at tight head lock (I am hoping Lewis Chessum can be that guy but alas)... On a positive note, the u18s look pretty good, and their captain who plays hooker looks like he could be the next big thing, time will tell.
We need to definitely change the coaching staff, but it won't solve the generational issues. We need to completely restructure the entire system. The RFU need a complete overhaul and even though it pains me to say it being an active player at grassroots rugby, we need to allocate the grassroots funding to our schools (like Ireland done years ago) if we want the national team to get back to the promise land.
But let's go back to 2016... The England team weren't as bad as they are now when EJ took over. They just needed to beef the pack back up.... So they made Hartley captain, bought back a motivated Haskell and were lucky that a bunch of Saracens players were peaking (Billy in particular). It worked for a few years, but the early signs of decay was there even before the 2019 RWC.
Yes, they caught fire and made the final in that tournament. We had a fit Tuilagi playing great rugby, and Underhil/Curry who both kind of came out of no where at the perfect time. I also think we caught a bunch of teams off guard who were not at their best at the time... let's not forget that we looked pretty average for the two previous 6N tournaments. I think the decay started a lot earlier than many of us would like to think. A lot of these players (Itoje, Billy, Farrel etc) were starting to not look like world class players as early as 2018 IMO.
The RWC final shown to us that we were indeed a lot further away than we wanted to believe after beating an OK Australian team (that we were beating all the time anyway) and a NZ team that weren't as good as they had been in the past with a lot of ageing players set to retire.
We then gradually started to decline more and more after the world cup... You could even see it at club level with our biggest teams getting drubbed by European teams. And it has been downhill ever since. We have basically had no good generations coming up through the ranks for a long time... While the likes of France and Ireland have had amazing u20 teams in recent times. Something has gone wrong with our schools and academy system in general... We are simply not producing enough world class quality players and have been leap frogged by our competitors because of that.
Look at the player shortage at key positions. The best tight head prop we've got is probably Kyle Sinkler who can't scrummage to save his life. No decent 12s, no decent enforcers at tight head lock (I am hoping Lewis Chessum can be that guy but alas)... On a positive note, the u18s look pretty good, and their captain who plays hooker looks like he could be the next big thing, time will tell.
We need to definitely change the coaching staff, but it won't solve the generational issues. We need to completely restructure the entire system. The RFU need a complete overhaul and even though it pains me to say it being an active player at grassroots rugby, we need to allocate the grassroots funding to our schools (like Ireland done years ago) if we want the national team to get back to the promise land.
Oh this has been one of my big bug bears for YEARS! Other teams players accelerate into the tackle ..trying to smash through them. It's a challenge.
Our players are going down to set up the ruck before they've even hit contact. Its the most frustrating thing!!
This is why I've championed Ted Hill for so long (but the stats now appear to make that a mockery) and why the likes of Earl, Pearson, Barbeary (if he EVER gets injury free) etc are players we need to look at post WC
Where's our power house backs.
Purely as an example: I go on about Radwan.... he's a small back but aggressive and he does hit the tackle at full speed (when he isnt side stepping and sitting people down) I'd take him over Malins any day of the week at wing...
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Moving forward in the opposite direction.
Malins on the wing is a mystery to me. I think his only potential role in the England team is at fullback but he's defensively woeful.
I felt yesterday we were tackling too high and we need to chop them down, yes you risk the offload game but with the weather it would have made it vastly harder to make it work.
Due to our inability to pick proper wingers, we no longer have any broken field players, that can put us on the front foot.
I don't agree with all the negativity of we have crap players, the league is crap, the u20s are crap etc. We last won the u20 6N in 2021 which would make the players ages be between 20-23 right now.
I feel the RFU are clowns, the coaching set up is poor and no young players are given a solid chance. Radwan for example, played 2 years ago against Tonga, ripped them apart and never to be seen again.
Allowing clubs to run academies means they have control of player development.
The RFU have completely absolved responsibility for the youth area and we are now suffering.
Prem clubs should only be allowed to employ over 20 year olds on full time contracts and there should be a pool of 18-20 year olds who can be drafted on a year contract, with a standard salary, paid 50/50, by club and RFU, by any team, outside of the salary cap, but restricted to a number per club.
That way clubs will be able to free up some salary cap, will be able to reduce costs of running an academy, while getting a bunch of young players for one year to 'trial' them.
RFU need to take control up to U20, with more mibey going to elite unis and sixth forms, with another centralised one for those players not able to go to uni, how about a rugby academy in Rugby, running 16-21 courses of different levels and specialisms.
Malins works for Sarries because of the way the play, they have a mobile BR to cover wide areas and they are solid in midfield with OF, Tompkins and Lozowski.
This means Malins and Daly have to do less one on one defending and means the attacking threat is more important.
Power is often misunderstood as mass.
It is mass x speed and why Billy is not working.
No speed in contact means nothing.
Why Earl, Curry and Pearson are carriers better than their size, their speed in contact ups the total power.
Completely agree.
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Would love to see Lozowski back in an England shirt,
Mad that he's not had another look in considering how much we're missing another playmaker, value kicking and could do with an additional goal kicker
Now getting out of the group is looking challenging Borthers could at least do what Eddie has done and give some of the next generation the experience. With what he's got, get Murley in, Tom Willis, Mercer etc.
But I've heard it said a lot it doesn't matter which players are chosen it's the game plan that's the problem so doesnt really matter.
But I've heard it said a lot it doesn't matter which players are chosen it's the game plan that's the problem so doesnt really matter.
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Tbh I'd borderline prefer he didn't give young players world cup PTSD at this point, could be really damaging for their career
Totally agree, he obviously fits with OF, if he stays post-RWC, but he would also compliment Ford in the RDP role.
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Yep and he's got a bit of attitude as well.
