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England v South Africa - 16/11/2024 (17.40)
- Thread starter OllyM97
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Rassie will probably go for his 1st picks across the board here. I'm not always sure where he reckons the players rank and if there are any horses for courses but I reckon we'll see:
1 Nche (clear #1 even perhaps were Kitshoff available)
2 Mbonambi (I doubt the line-out worries on the weekend will see Marx get in ahead)
3 Du Toit (might be Koch, perhaps even Louw or even Du Toit on the bench to cover loose head. Its a straight shoot out with Malherbe injured)
4 Etzebeth
5 Mostert
6 Kolisi (assuming he is fit otherwise Van Staaden)
7 Du Toit
8 Wiese (think Smith showed again he has greater impact off the bench)
9 Williams
10 Pollard
11 Arendse (though TBF Mapimpi didn't put a foot wrong- even with the harsh yellow but the man is 34..)
12 De Allende (I think Esterhuizen had a good outing but it was always to give DDA a rest whilst adding depth of test experience for himself)
13 Kriel (Am being in the same boat as Esterhuizen)
14 Kolbe (though again, Moodie looked classy)
15 ... WlR? Fassi has looked the goods with Willemse injured BUT then why not field Fassi vs Scotland? It's not as if he has had too much rugby. I think its more case of WlR combing with Pollard specifically. With SFM injured that IMO gives Le Roux the inside lane.
16 Marx
17 Koch
18 Steenekamp
19 Snyman
20 Louw
21 Smith
22 Reinach (Hendrikse has consistently looked pedestrian)
23 Libbok / Am / Fassi / Moodie - I can make an argument for each.
Hoping to see Hanekom at 8 or on the bench but I expect if not vs Scotland he won't debut vs England but will feature vs Wales. Hoping its at least a 6-2 split. Would have loved to see 10 SFM and 15 Willemse with a classy 9. At least at 10 and 15 we have people coming back. I don't know who our 9 is going to be going into 2027- I just feel it is an area where we have a lot of journeymen but no-one close to world class. And its not like there is a magical up-and-commer waiting in the wings. I'm hoping for Imad Khan both for Stormers and SA but think 2027 is 2 years too early for him. I'd have had Nohamba fighting it out with Williams but he has been playing 10 this year and I suppose that kinda rules him out even if Morne van den Berg hasn't been picked ahead of him. Williams, Reinach, De Klerk and Hendrikse all with an asterisk in terms of age or form (or both) next to their names as well.
1 Nche (clear #1 even perhaps were Kitshoff available)
2 Mbonambi (I doubt the line-out worries on the weekend will see Marx get in ahead)
3 Du Toit (might be Koch, perhaps even Louw or even Du Toit on the bench to cover loose head. Its a straight shoot out with Malherbe injured)
4 Etzebeth
5 Mostert
6 Kolisi (assuming he is fit otherwise Van Staaden)
7 Du Toit
8 Wiese (think Smith showed again he has greater impact off the bench)
9 Williams
10 Pollard
11 Arendse (though TBF Mapimpi didn't put a foot wrong- even with the harsh yellow but the man is 34..)
12 De Allende (I think Esterhuizen had a good outing but it was always to give DDA a rest whilst adding depth of test experience for himself)
13 Kriel (Am being in the same boat as Esterhuizen)
14 Kolbe (though again, Moodie looked classy)
15 ... WlR? Fassi has looked the goods with Willemse injured BUT then why not field Fassi vs Scotland? It's not as if he has had too much rugby. I think its more case of WlR combing with Pollard specifically. With SFM injured that IMO gives Le Roux the inside lane.
16 Marx
17 Koch
18 Steenekamp
19 Snyman
20 Louw
21 Smith
22 Reinach (Hendrikse has consistently looked pedestrian)
23 Libbok / Am / Fassi / Moodie - I can make an argument for each.
Hoping to see Hanekom at 8 or on the bench but I expect if not vs Scotland he won't debut vs England but will feature vs Wales. Hoping its at least a 6-2 split. Would have loved to see 10 SFM and 15 Willemse with a classy 9. At least at 10 and 15 we have people coming back. I don't know who our 9 is going to be going into 2027- I just feel it is an area where we have a lot of journeymen but no-one close to world class. And its not like there is a magical up-and-commer waiting in the wings. I'm hoping for Imad Khan both for Stormers and SA but think 2027 is 2 years too early for him. I'd have had Nohamba fighting it out with Williams but he has been playing 10 this year and I suppose that kinda rules him out even if Morne van den Berg hasn't been picked ahead of him. Williams, Reinach, De Klerk and Hendrikse all with an asterisk in terms of age or form (or both) next to their names as well.
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Thought Pollard was class at the weekend and playing with a bit more freedom to the RWC (which was arguably fitness related).
If he takes the reigns of this side and plays a more complete game over the next 5 years he'll step right up into the elite 10s of the pro era for me. Weird to say about a 2x world cup winner but felt his place kicking was the only thing truly world class in his campaigns so far.
If he takes the reigns of this side and plays a more complete game over the next 5 years he'll step right up into the elite 10s of the pro era for me. Weird to say about a 2x world cup winner but felt his place kicking was the only thing truly world class in his campaigns so far.
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Wonder if Cheika is helping him get more confident in that regards
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I get what you are saying and don't think its weird. And its been a thing with SA 10s over the years- I mean you won't see Morne Steyn or Butch James anywhere near any discussion about great 10s and yet they've been there and have tasted success. Even Joel Stransky and Honiball. Limited.
Has Carter set the bar too high perhaps? Nah, I think Pollard is good but its more his lack of an obvious weakness and tidiness from the tee when it matters than anything else that has seen him reach success. That and playing behind what I rate as one of the top 5 ever packs. And our 10s have been playing with 9s and/or 15s who make up for them sometimes at the tee (Montgomery taking over for James) or in general play- FdP and Van der Westhuizen. Faf and Willie at 9 and 15 have also taken some of the pressure off of Pollard in genera play so you can't compare Pollard with say a Garbisi on equal terms.
I don't expect any unforced changes for England. A game against the Boks probably isn't the time to tare everything up and start again. At least we can look back to 2021 where England were pumped upfront but managed a narrow victory. Players who could add some ballast for the close quarters either haven't played or aren't in the sqaud. Ted Hill, Tom Willis.
Furbank has been quiet, more down to how England have played. I'd still stick with Furbank and hope the backline clicks but definitely a case for Steward to come back in, with the directive change with not blocking/escorting on kicks.
I struggling to see anything but a convincing Bok win. Patience running out with the fan base.
Furbank has been quiet, more down to how England have played. I'd still stick with Furbank and hope the backline clicks but definitely a case for Steward to come back in, with the directive change with not blocking/escorting on kicks.
I struggling to see anything but a convincing Bok win. Patience running out with the fan base.
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Anyone else heard the rumour that SB's going to unleash the damp squib squad in an 8-0 bench?
Please tell me this is a joke, otherwise I may not sleep tonight.
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He's worked with a few handy 10s, could definitely see it. I reckon Rassie also wants to become a free scoring outfit so is giving more freedom. I don't think the win percentage of the Henry / Hansen NZ teams is repeatable but scoring as much as them can be, I think he wants to go for it.
Aye, I look at SA as the perfect team for a 10 to play because they barely need one. Was watching a bit of the 2015 WC back and forgot how much he could play, I really rated him then and thought he'd become the best itw. With a bit more freedom I could still see that happening. (He arguably is anyway with Mo'unga out of the picture currently)
Carter is probably untouchable, he'd have been a world class centre and fullback also. The most complete player to ever do it.
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What would the average age of this SA team be? Not saying anything I'm just curious it seems they've been round forever
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Times saying selection expected to be delayed until Thursday. Probable recall for Steward and foreseeing more of a kicking game a possible recall for Ford. 6-2 likely (yes @BMatt I was joking 
).
Boks do make me laugh at times. Have referred to Martin, who was pretty good against them in the SF, as "not the biggest guy" which in fairness is probably true by their standards.
).Boks do make me laugh at times. Have referred to Martin, who was pretty good against them in the SF, as "not the biggest guy" which in fairness is probably true by their standards.
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CCS fitness atm is not up to starting at 6 imo
People may disagree with me but I would seriously be tempted to start Martin on the flank and bring in Isiewke at lock
People may disagree with me but I would seriously be tempted to start Martin on the flank and bring in Isiewke at lock
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It feels like they have been around, and they have been, the 2019 squad was very young, they say that it was the aim to win the 2023 world cup with that squad but they thought they would be too young to win it, then they did win it,
2023 was supposed to be the peak of this team, and now we are in the cycle where it's basically post peak, but massively experienced.
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Itoje to 6 and a Martin/Isiekwe lock partnership would be a lot of beef in the tight 5
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Would be tempted to to move him to 8 with a brief to empty the tank for 55.
Like the idea of Martin at 6, but at the moment I don't think he'd be a huge improvement. He's not in peak form and would probably need to shed a bit of bulk.
Isiekwe and Martin in the row with Itoje, Underhill and CCS might be an interesting horses for courses selection. Won't happen obvs.
Itoje at 6....please lets not do that again. Tried and done...
I think Chessum missing has been a HUGE blow to their plans. I said before...i think he was earmarked for the 6 role. Then CCS could have come on at 50 mins or such to add huge impact.
I think Chessum missing has been a HUGE blow to their plans. I said before...i think he was earmarked for the 6 role. Then CCS could have come on at 50 mins or such to add huge impact.
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The Boks are interesting.
When they choose, they can play some very inventive and fast stuff, but they do so with a pack full of bruisers, not "athletes" or "footballers". Obviously they can all handle OK etc, but the first instinct is still to smash and dominate.
Kind of the way France used to do things.
Sometimes think we get a bit too theoretical about balance etc. You're not going to go too far wrong with a pack that's rock solid in the set piece and is muscular enough to get on the front foot more often than not.
When they choose, they can play some very inventive and fast stuff, but they do so with a pack full of bruisers, not "athletes" or "footballers". Obviously they can all handle OK etc, but the first instinct is still to smash and dominate.
Kind of the way France used to do things.
Sometimes think we get a bit too theoretical about balance etc. You're not going to go too far wrong with a pack that's rock solid in the set piece and is muscular enough to get on the front foot more often than not.
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Yep, but Chessum's not available and if CCS is being moved then out of the 'big man at 6' options we currently have I'd prefer Itoje there over Isiekwe or Martin. Hill might be an option but that would be a huge ask for a player who's in good club form but has been overlooked by successive Eng coaches.
Suspect CCS will probably retain the 6 shirt anyhow and that we'll go 6-2 so he doesn't have to go the full 80.
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