England v Samoa

eot345 · Nov 15, 2010

id love to see a team of

1.Sheridan
2.Thompson
3.Wilson
4.Attwood
5.shaw
6.Croft
7.Moody (capt)
8.Dan Ward smith

9.Care
10.Flood
11.Ashton
12.waldouck
13.Bannahan
14.Strettle
15.Foden

16.Joe Mahrler
17.hartley
18.Doran Jones
19.lawes
20.hape
21.Armitage.
22.Fourie

i know it's quite a large risk not playing our best team but players do need rest and it would be a great gtame to see which players have a relalistic chance of playing well in an england shirt

munstermuffin · Nov 15, 2010

What type of bench is that

eot345 · Nov 15, 2010

what do you mean

mounsey_boi · Nov 15, 2010

Intelligent bench

munstermuffin said:
What type of bench is that

I think thats actaully a very strong and smart team to pick...

munstermuffin · Nov 15, 2010

Should Doran-Jones be 17 etc

eot345 · Nov 15, 2010

edited now

now do u approve of my team?

Darwin · Nov 15, 2010

I'd expect Samoa will put out an almost identical side to that they played against Ireland last week. I wouldn't mind them playing Fotuali'i at 10 outside Junior Polu, as I'm not a huge fan of Lavea (though I didn't see the match last week, so Lavea may well have had a blinder...). If this Samoan team clicks they could cause a lot of trouble....

TRF_Olyy · Nov 15, 2010

eot345 said:
what do you mean

Bench is normally:

16. Hooker
17. Prop
18. Lock
19. Back Row
20. Scrum Half
21. Flyhalf/Centre
22. Wing/Full back

Just that yours is arranged a little differently

munstermuffin · Nov 15, 2010

Olyy haven't seen much of Sale this season but is Charlie Hodgson on form or what

TRF_Olyy · Nov 15, 2010

Nope.
He was on great form over the summer, then as soon as the tour with England finished he went in for surgery, missed the first month of the season, then was just pretty poor when he came back.
It's like he's stuck in last years mentality, I mean, he was making the tackles, strong passing, accurate kicking from hand and the tee, but then was just booting the ball away all the time. It's as if he hadn't attended a training session this season, as the rest of the team wanted to run the ball.
Hopefully that was what he was told (he hasn't played a massive amount of games this season) rather than him playing badly, as on his day i think he's really really good (though I may be slightly biased

)

I think if he can play like he did over the summer he'll do well for England (I think he will, as well, as his style over the summer was different to how he was at Sale, which, as they were in the bottom two, was incredibly conservative, whereas with Sale he was trying things, and contributed directly to at least two tries with an intercept and a little grubber through against barbarians)

veux · Nov 15, 2010

Allans been calle dup, would be interesting to see him and Banahan paired in the center. I guess we'll find out tomorrow lunch.

Phlegm & Poise · Nov 15, 2010

I don't like Banahan full stop. There is no subtlety or skill to his game whatsoever. He makes Tindall and Hape look like they are fleet of foot and he has hooves for hands. I have not seen him at 13 but I am 98% certain that he does not possess the tool set to succeed at international level in any position. I do not really understand the reasoning for mentioning him either. Presumably being proven to be woeful on the wing for England puts you ahead of others at your adopted new position just because you have some international experience? No. For me, the face simply does not fit, Banahan can stick to club rugby until he does something outstanding at club level to persuade me otherwise, and even then he's towards the back of the queue.

Personally I'd rather get this game won with a strong XV and then bring on the subs etc at half time if/when we're cruising. Samoa are not the strongest side in terms of how drilled they are, but they will present a hugely different challenge than the Australian game. They will consistently look to make yards in contact and to bowl over perceived weak players (Flood?) in the England backline. They will also constantly border on illegality at the rucks and probably injure someone with their reckless tackling, so no shirkers, please. I want to see the same England XV (where possible) playing a different game to the one against Australia; a well-drilled game can take these Samoans apart and I do not want to see us getting drawn into a scrappy playground style affair with stupid rugby being played.

Phlegm & Poise · Nov 15, 2010

Also, has anyone received their tickets for this one yet? Bit alarmed as I ordered these back in July!

mohamed_ali12 · Nov 16, 2010

Where to start with this one?

Phlegm & Poise said:
There is no subtlety or skill to his game whatsoever...he has hooves for hands

Given that Matt Banahan starts for a Bath team which prides itself on its expansive and open game, and is coached by Steve Meehan, a man who has drilled into every Bath player the ability to offload at pace, it seems strange to me that you'd describe him as a man with 'hooves for hands'. He is in fact, one of the more capable offloaders in the team, and possesses pretty great balance for a man of his size. With regards to subtlety, there is definitely scope for improvement, but he is still young and has shown signs of progression recently.

Phlegm & Poise said:
I have not seen him at 13

Bit strange to pass judgement on his credentials then, given that is his most likely starting position for England at the moment.

Phlegm & Poise said:
Presumably being proven to be woeful on the wing for England puts you ahead of others

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ontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> Interesting, considering he's scored 4 tries for England in 6 games, all the while playing for a pretty atrocious attacking team, in which the ball rarely went past the inside centre, the back three seemed to want to kick at every opportunity and Monye (a Lions wing), Tait (a World Cup finalist), Hipkiss, Geraghty and to a lesser extent Flutey and Armitage also failed to perform

Phlegm & Poise said:
Banahan can stick to club rugby until he does something outstanding at club level to persuade me otherwise

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The Bath coaches obviously see something pretty outstanding in him, what with him being named captain in two games this month. He's also been in the top three of the try-scoring charts in two of the last three seasons, which suggests that even though defences found him out to a certain extent in his second season, he managed to adapt his game to become a massive asset to Bath's attack once again. And his alternatives? Well, I wouldn't say any of them have done anything particularly outstanding to deserve inclusion.

As you can probably tell, I quite rate the guy.
[/FONT]

Sam Owen · Nov 16, 2010

Very tough game for us this week, made even tougher by the fact that England beat Australia last week. Just like last week Im hoping for an upset this week with us winning. Although I have reasonable doubt that we will come away with a win, there is hope for us (dont ask me where).

CMON SAMOA!!!!

Shaggy · Nov 16, 2010

Phlegm & Poise said:
I don't like Banahan full stop. There is no subtlety or skill to his game whatsoever. He makes Tindall and Hape look like they are fleet of foot and he has hooves for hands. I have not seen him at 13 but I am 98% certain that he does not possess the tool set to succeed at international level in any position. I do not really understand the reasoning for mentioning him either. Presumably being proven to be woeful on the wing for England puts you ahead of others at your adopted new position just because you have some international experience? No. For me, the face simply does not fit, Banahan can stick to club rugby until he does something outstanding at club level to persuade me otherwise, and even then he's towards the back of the queue.

Personally I'd rather get this game won with a strong XV and then bring on the subs etc at half time if/when we're cruising. Samoa are not the strongest side in terms of how drilled they are, but they will present a hugely different challenge than the Australian game. They will consistently look to make yards in contact and to bowl over perceived weak players (Flood?) in the England backline. They will also constantly border on illegality at the rucks and probably injure someone with their reckless tackling, so no shirkers, please. I want to see the same England XV (where possible) playing a different game to the one against Australia; a well-drilled game can take these Samoans apart and I do not want to see us getting drawn into a scrappy playground style affair with stupid rugby being played.

I agree with most of what you've said (maybe not the ruck illegality stuff), but Samoa will struggle in the set pieces/forwards, and will use their big backs, such as Tuilagi to try to breach the midfield ... I don't pretend to be an expert on English Centres, but Hape and Tindell seem to be doing a pretty good job there defensively, and both of the wingers seem to be able to run of them pretty well.

If it was me, I think I'd make a few changes in the forwards in the starting line up, and maybe bring the replacement Centre on off the bench a bit earlier in the game, if there's a decent lead.

I'd expect Samoa to field the same team from last Saturday, and that they'll play better, as they've had more game time together ... it might look like england will win this game with ease, but it's important to string a series of wins together and further develop a winning team (so no mass changes)

Teh Mite · Nov 16, 2010

This is a surprisingly crucial game for England. Now they've "risen" their game for the Anzacs, they have to actually maintain that performance for the 'lesser' nations if they intend to be taken seriously. In other words, anything less then complete domination from England in this one will be deemed a failure, as will a winning scoreline of less then 20 - A repeat of last week and that should be easily attainable.

England must however cut out these momentary lapses in concentration - For Example: Getting turned over while the entire back-line is wide and the fullback has rushed the line leading to the first conceded try. An almost identical starting lineup would be a good idea from now on in (although I'd like to see a re-hash of midfield before it's too late). Get the familiarity built up now for the next 7 matches and blood the dirt-trackers as such in the pre-world cup warmups.

All this clap about Banahan, Armitage, JSD, Attwood, Wood, Dowson et al who clearly won't be major (or is most cases, minor) features of the world cup is counter productive to producing a tightly nit unit. A single change of player or two isn't a major issue come WC time - Familiarity between the first XV and their bench is however.

Sam Owen · Nov 16, 2010

England should rest a lot of their top players lol. Well I hope they do, I hope they rest at least 7 of them.

TRF_Olyy · Nov 16, 2010

No squad named yet :S
Sure that it's supposed to be midday today (it was last week and the week before) - Maybe they're waiting to see if Waldouck's fit or not? Though with calling up Allen it shouldn't really make any difference as they've "replaced" him anyway

eot345 · Nov 16, 2010

Bullitt said:
This is a surprisingly crucial game for England. Now they've "risen" their game for the Anzacs, they have to actually maintain that performance for the 'lesser' nations if they intend to be taken seriously. In other words, anything less then complete domination from England in this one will be deemed a failure, as will a winning scoreline of less then 20 - A repeat of last week and that should be easily attainable.

England must however cut out these momentary lapses in concentration - For Example: Getting turned over while the entire back-line is wide and the fullback has rushed the line leading to the first conceded try. An almost identical starting lineup would be a good idea from now on in (although I'd like to see a re-hash of midfield before it's too late). Get the familiarity built up now for the next 7 matches and blood the dirt-trackers as such in the pre-world cup warmups.

All this clap about Banahan, Armitage, JSD, Attwood, Wood, Dowson et al who clearly won't be major (or is most cases, minor) features of the world cup is counter productive to producing a tightly nit unit. A single change of player or two isn't a major issue come WC time - Familiarity between the first XV and their bench is however.

i dont agree with this i think that its good to rest our stonger players and to let our upcoming players have a go.

i agree with muhammed ali 12 about what he said about m. bannahan

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