England v France,23/02/13

[Jbobo]

Was a good game to watch as a neutral, good intensity. To be honest i think the French played the better rugby for most of the match, they definitely turned up. Huge pluses to be taken from the match regardless of the defeat, however the missed penalties really killed you. After missing two in a row i thought it was going to be England's day. Other than that, i thought Parra was excellent, as were Fofana and Picamoles. Michalak should not have been brought on Trinh-Duc played well. Ireland should be slightly worried me reckons

England were the same as they have been through the championship really, powerful, good defence, clinical in attack, but largely forward based and pretty much dependant on the boot of Farrell. Robshaw was impressive as was Tuilagi. Good win though, and still on course for a show down for the Slam in March. Good weekend of rugby so far!

 

[Triniquint]

Tough game, and not much to choose between them in the first half with a nervy England making heavy weather of it. However, the result reflected the difference between teams accurately. England have the ability to play as they did against the ABs, but they have adapted their game to match and overcome what is on offer on the day. To play relatively badly, and win, will do for me,and is the sign of a maturing team with potential in abundance.

 

[smartcooky]

I give up on the six nations. What's the point if a team can only win with the help of a ref? Complete sham. Yes, France have made mistakes but England haven't threatened at all, complete biased in the reffing by Joubert.

Are you still butthurt about 2011? You sound as bad as some Saffas with their woe is me, "the whole world hates us" and "Justice 4" whinging from a few years back.

I thought Joubert was OK. Yes, he made a few mistakes (what referee doesn't) but biased? I don't think so. Why would a South African (and with a French surname too) be biased against France?

England won because they were the better team on the park. They perhaps only had a slight edge, but it was all over the park, and crucially, at the all-important breakdown - lots of slight edges tend to add up in a close game.

France had numerous opportunities to win this game; they didn't take them, and the referee can't take them for you!

France are poorly coached, with some odd decision making going on. I mean, what was Saint-André thinking putting Michelak on when he did? That was a turning point for me.

There are also systemic issues in French rugby...like too many imports. This might be great for the Top 14 clubs, but its not so great for Les Blues because it is stifling development. England have placed restrictions on imports, albeit through the back door to get around European Law, and it seems to be working well for them with all of their elite squad now playing in the Premiership.

 

[SelimNiai]

I can understand that but Lancaster and Co do not seem to think so......



I am not knocking Brown as a 15....I think he has been excellent for Quins although not really translated that into the English 15?

However, just as Michalak and Fofana have shown, when you play people out of their positions, they tend not to be the same player!

Unfortunately, Lancaster sees Brown as the only alternative for the wing because he is a good defensive full back and can make dazzling runs from there and Lancaster can not see anyone combining those qualities? Personally, I would prefer to play him at 15 instead of Goode but who would Lancaster deem capable to fill the gap with at wing..........

Brown had an indifferent 1st game but has been better the last 2. He is a solid player and defensively sound which fits the Lancaster vision. The wing alternatives, Wade, Varndell, Sharples etc are uber talented but are more a risk defensively. Think for that reason he's sticking with it.

Ashton though, what has happened with him, I'm not sure I've seen a worse winger performance. He looks bereft of confidence. He needs to be shipped back to Sarries to get some form as at the moment he should seriously worry about his spot in the England side let alone the summer

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I'm warming to Brown.
As Iain said, he's playing well enough and fits what Lancaster wants from a wing. He's certainly improving his wing game/supporting lines every game. There are better options, sure, but none in the EPS, so it's a moot point really.
I'm still a bit annoyed Abendanon hasn't made it to Lancaster's squad, even as injury call up - been on fine form for...well, ages really, and is a 15 who has a decent amount of experience on the wing too. Would've thought that'd play to Lancaster's wants.

 

[nosevi]

For England: you're vulnerable, but you're good. England can play, as I've said before, a "standard" game and win. What's a "standard game" for this England side ? Great intensity (not the full match, but will pick up all of a sudden...), strong forward work, a consistent scrum and big defense. You can also add good penalty kicking of course, though Farrell got injured unfortunately and it sounds untimely to mention this now.
Vulnerable because: un-athletic, it will take merely a team that can consistently string good attack for at least 75% of the match to win, because you've got nothing in return. The attack is slow, blurry in strategy and still too obvious. England can grind out a win, despite playing mediocre. But they won't give away silly penalties like everybody else in this tournament, and they'll make sure to put enough pressure on the opposition to get some themselves - and nail them in with a promising Farrell and his solid boot.

England is flat, but somehow efficient. And ferocious. And then they've added enough skill (kicking for possession, penalty kicking, scrum...) to at least get away with a win.
And I mean this, believe it or not - won't change the fact that - I mean this in the most neutral, unemotional way possible.

Congratulations to England, we played like SHHIT (not bad, SHHITT) in the second half after a nice first half. It's too bad because if we kept that fine ( not excellent, just "fine") level of play for our standards, we get a nice victory in the great stadium that is Twickenham...But England wins, it's encouraging for you, and you deserve the win.

Where's French Flair ? Where are all the tries ?...where's the excitement in rugby, the magic ??...

yoe, you are simply wrong on so many levels I don't really know where to begin, might as well start with the last comment though. All the tries? You realise of course that England have scored far more tries than France in their encounters in the 6 or 5 Nations over the last 21 years (37 vs 27 I believe).

England can play a standard game? No, they've played a totally different game against the ABs, Scotland, Ireland and France. In each case they've done what they needed to do to win, but they've done it in totally different ways - they've adapted to the opposition and conditions, and they've done it pretty well.

You are mistaking clinical with flat. So far England have won because they've kept in the game when they're behind in the run of play, and taken their chances better when they're on the ascendency. They didn't get away with a win, they beat France in the last 20 minutes.

Would you have won if you hadn't dropped off from the first half intensity? Maybe, maybe not, but I'd argue it would be far from a given. You were 1 point up weren't you at half time? I forget but it was close. Given the run of play I would have said it should have been more; that strikes me as an unimaginative, slow blurry and obvious attack.

France did pitch up today, and they threw everything at England for most of the match. If they had played like that I'd have been surprised if they would have lost to Italy (no disrespect to the Italians at all). They lost because, on the day, England were the better, and smarter, side.

 

[nosevi]

There's a lot of chat about Brown but he is a fairly safe bet to be honest. One thing he does bloody well is stay on his feet. You can't underestimate how much difference that makes in allowing the support players to get to him. It keeps the ball alive and keeps momentum for his side. His kick chase game is also pretty good which puts the opposition on the back foot. His defence is also good. As someone else said, we could do a lot worse. Oh yes, and he gets under the skin of the opposition, often a useful thing to do.

 

[j'nuh]

The thing is that Brown has always been pretty decent in attack (scores a lot of tries, decent feet) and that's not going to matter wherever he appears in the backline. In attack, wing and fullback can be interchangeable. He's already been exposed on the wing defensively (eg Hogg and Maitland). He was okay today because France didn't even try to expose him. I can't remember a backline move down Clerc's wing all game.

But I'm still reserved at how he'll manage with the likes of Jane and Dagg running at him down his wing in open play.

That said, Ashton is an even bigger concern. FWIW, May is just back from injury and is looking the real deal on the wing...

 

[nosevi]

But I'm still reserved at how he'll manage with the likes of Jane and Dagg running at him down his wing in open play.

They did (Jane anyway) and he did fine. And he skinned Jane one on one from a standing start as if he wasn't there. Sorry, I think he's doing ok. Would put him at full back but other than that he's not doing badly.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Well here are my thoughts:

Despite what is said, England actually got the closest to scoring a worked try in the game on 2 occassions (Tuilagi getting tackled just short and Farrell managing to both not run through a massive gap nor get the kick right, either could realistically have resulted in tries). With regards to the team I think the following will be best:

- Ashton off. He doesn't offer enough in attack and his defence is shocking. If we are not careful teams could target him and run right past him. He doesn't put any effort into tackles at all and seems to be afraid of contact both in defence and attack.
- We need Morgan back. His work at the breakdown is great.
- Drill discipline into the side properly. They are still doing very stupid things that games swing on. Discipline discipline discipline should be the team mentality. Everything else falls into place after that.
- We need faster runners. Brown is the only one who seems able to actually run past people. Tuilagi is a good battering ram but he's slow.
- Care seems to deliver faster ball and I think he looks like a contender for starting again. We need fast ball more than anything if we want to develop a fast flowing game.
- Longer range on our clearance kicks would be good. Maybe some training for that?
- Lastly we need someone to work with Tuilagi to exploit line breaks. He is currently our best chance of getting over the gain line but rarely has the support for an offload or he isn't looking for it. He also needs to remember that Brown is with him on breaks. He seems to ignore him once the line is infront of him.

I think that's everything. A team with a lot of potential I feel. Just need a bit of tweaking to get the right people in the right places and then just hammer discipline into them all day long.

 

[Big Ewis]

I think it's a very boring tournament this year. France losing is just...wtvr, we've been through the reasons a million times, it wouldn't make it less boring for me if we'd won all 3, given the quality of those matches...the one against Italy in fact was the most entertaining by far.
But France, Wales and Italy playing like crap for most of it....England just being England, and Ireland showing up once and then being flat the next time...

I dunno, I was anticipating this thing soooooooo much in January, and now that it's here, each week I grow less and less excited...surely the disappointment is a factor, but the matches constantly are a let down (except that first weekend). Watching older 90's and 2000's 5N 6N, and then this ?! It's SHOCKING, the difference....

 

[Largejanner]

I think it's a very boring tournament this year. France losing is just...wtvr, we've been through the reasons a million times, it wouldn't make it less boring for me if we'd won all 3, given the quality of those matches...the one against Italy in fact was the most entertaining by far.
But France, Wales and Italy playing like crap for most of it....England just being England, and Ireland showing up once and then being flat the next time...

I dunno, I was anticipating this thing soooooooo much in January, and now that it's here, each week I grow less and less excited...surely the disappointment is a factor, but the matches constantly are a let down (except that first weekend). Watching older 90's and 2000's 5N 6N, and then this ?! It's SHOCKING, the difference....

I agree with most of this, the 6N is becoming a low grade competition that only the Celts seem to cream themselves over if they win it. The World Cup is the real deal and the 6N has become a useful vehicle to judge progress in the 4 year World Cup cycle and not a lot else.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

:huh:
I don't agree with that at all.

 

[j'nuh]

I prefer the 6N to the World Cup...

 

[TRF_Cymro]

:huh:
I don't agree with that at all.

Ignore him ... he's just trying to troll.

 

[LittleGuy]

I think it's a very boring tournament this year. France losing is just...wtvr, we've been through the reasons a million times, it wouldn't make it less boring for me if we'd won all 3, given the quality of those matches...the one against Italy in fact was the most entertaining by far.
But France, Wales and Italy playing like crap for most of it....England just being England, and Ireland showing up once and then being flat the next time...

I dunno, I was anticipating this thing soooooooo much in January, and now that it's here, each week I grow less and less excited...surely the disappointment is a factor, but the matches constantly are a let down (except that first weekend). Watching older 90's and 2000's 5N 6N, and then this ?! It's SHOCKING, the difference....

You know what so do I. With the caveat the first week was quite good(though I think many were ridiculously overating it) but the last two rounds have been pretty dreck. It looks like England are going to cruise to the trophy(though perhaps not the Grand slam) France look like they don't even care, virtually no urgency in their game, bizarre selections, poor coaching.

Italy peaked hilariously early and partly thanks to a draconian ban on Parisse for getting lippy, will most likely be a non factor for the final two games. Wales have managed to turn things around and this might be the most positive thing to come out of this years edition. I am looking forward to Scotland vs. Ireland I'm hoping it gets things going a little heading into the final two rounds especially since the winner will still ahve a chance at the ***le.

Edit: Also no matter what happens in the final two games this will be France's worst 6N since 2001 and that's providing they win both their remaining games, otherwise it would have to be comparable to the 1999 5N or even worse should they lose both games.(last time they went winless was 1969 though they ahd a draw last complete whitewashing was 1957!!!!)

 

[Largejanner]

Ignore him ... he's just trying to troll.

No, a geniune viewpoint I`m afraid.
The 6N is eminently watchable, but I feel it`s losing a bit of it`s lustre and the likes of France and England don`t quite have the passion for it that they used to.
The World Cup is still relatively new, but I sense it`s changing the motivations and priorities of some nations, and the 6N could suffer as a result.

 

[Jbobo]

the 6N is becoming a low grade competition that only the Celts seem to cream themselves over if they win it. The World Cup is the real deal and the 6N has become a useful vehicle to judge progress in the 4 year World Cup cycle and not a lot else...

I feel it`s losing a bit of it`s lustre and the likes of France and England don`t quite have the passion for it that they used to.
.

Are you sure it's not just that the likes of England and France are just nowhere near as dominant as they used to be? That includes the World cup by the way.

The Celts have well and truly caught up and you're finding it difficult to handle, i get that. Here's a Hankie, to clean up the cream you clearly still have over yourself from 2003.

 

[Wilko's left boot]

- Care seems to deliver faster ball and I think he looks like a contender for starting again. We need fast ball more than anything if we want to develop a fast flowing game.

Definitely agree with this. Delivery to the 10 seemed far more zippy once Care was on. I think that he should certainly be close to the starting spot for Italy.

 

[racingmetrofan]

The irony with this England team is it's pretty much exactly the sort of team that Martin Johnson wanted but the players he chose just wouldn't perform.

I hope against Scotland and Wales we see 36 starting in the 12 jersey with Tulagi at 13.