England v France,23/02/13

[Big Ewis]

hey fellas,
didn't read what precedes this very message but I'm sure there's hurtful and encouraging comments abound...I'll get to it later.

It's strange, but I don't feel disappointed. I think at some point during the second half, the disappointment started setting in, and now I'm in a more advanced stage. I've accepted France has the potential, with this very group, to accomplish great things. But not now. In the ever so fluctuating history of our Rugby, this is merely yet another chapter. Nothing unique, nothing to dwell on for too long.
We've played 3 teams we easily could've beaten this tournament, what I mean by that is, we haven't played the AB or any team capable of putting 40 on us. In fact, I'd say the "best" team we've played...was Italy. They looked threatening, they could string a play on attack together, they also had the defense...

For England: you're vulnerable, but you're good. England can play, as I've said before, a "standard" game and win. What's a "standard game" for this England side ? Great intensity (not the full match, but will pick up all of a sudden...), strong forward work, a consistent scrum and big defense. You can also add good penalty kicking of course, though Farrell got injured unfortunately and it sounds untimely to mention this now.
Vulnerable because: un-athletic, it will take merely a team that can consistently string good attack for at least 75% of the match to win, because you've got nothing in return. The attack is slow, blurry in strategy and still too obvious. England can grind out a win, despite playing mediocre. But they won't give away silly penalties like everybody else in this tournament, and they'll make sure to put enough pressure on the opposition to get some themselves - and nail them in with a promising Farrell and his solid boot.

England is flat, but somehow efficient. And ferocious. And then they've added enough skill (kicking for possession, penalty kicking, scrum...) to at least get away with a win.
And I mean this, believe it or not - won't change the fact that - I mean this in the most neutral, unemotional way possible.

Congratulations to England, we played like SHHIT (not bad, SHHITT) in the second half after a nice first half. It's too bad because if we kept that fine ( not excellent, just "fine") level of play for our standards, we get a nice victory in the great stadium that is Twickenham...But England wins, it's encouraging for you, and you deserve the win.

Where's French Flair ? Where are all the tries ?...where's the excitement in rugby, the magic ??...

 

[Amobokoboko]

Good win by England, Wicked try by Tuilagi.

 

[irelandfan123]

what try was that? the offside one where all he had to do was run over the line? lol

 

[Amobokoboko]

So Normally England will take the grand slam

 

[irelandfan123]

was 2003 not the last time they got the grandslam??? lol

 

[Amobokoboko]

what try was that? the offside one where all he had to do was run over the line? lol

It's called sarcasme

 

[irelandfan123]

Thank god I thought you had lost the plot

 

[Amobokoboko]

No worries mate. All good

 

[Taylo2]

Wow, what a nervy game that were! Just about worked that knot out of my stomach now.

Another win, another scalp, another week where confidence can grow. I said before that we had to be warey of France, as they would come out all guns blazing, and sure enough that happened. Well I say that happened, apart from a piece of magic from Fofana, France didn't get near to scoring. Likewise, the luck we had with our try was the only time we really looked like scoring. Think there was a chip through by Farrell that went too long, but apart from that nothing much.

I know a lot of people are piping on about how boring England are, and how they're nothing special....I beg to differ. What is happening inside this group of players is pretty special, but as I said before it's a work in progress, a process which will see us lose, and to be honest we need to lose a game here and there. You learn more about a team in its loses than you do its wins. I'm hoping we avoid said loses until the summer, but im sure it'll come.

Our defense is looking strong, well organised and has strength i depth. Today there was some loose tackling from us, Ashton was a ghost int he Fofana try, but generally speaking we still line up well defending the ball.

Our attack still needs improvement, and it'll come. We are starting to pick players to give us options, which is important, as then we can select pairings to give opponents headaches.

Back to the game though, I think a few key things shaped the way the game went.

1. Goal kicking, we were more consistant than France, simple as that
2. Defense, we defended better in the second half, where France became sloppy. By only being a point adrift at halftime, this meant we got a stronger platform to build on as time went on while France's deteriorated.
3. Aggression, we seemed to have it, and almost "lost it" especially Farrell & Ashton.
4. The bench, once this came into play, we got stronger and stronger, while the french game stalled.

If I could pick any french players to play for England, I think only Picamoles and Fofana would make the cut after today. I might have mentioned Parra too, but I can't stand him.
For England, I think Launchbury was unlucky not to get MOTM, Robshaw was awesome as ever, Cole put in a solid shift, and Tuilagi/Barritt nulified the french midfield threat.

Bring on Italy, a game we need to focus on and keep up this intensity/performance.

 

[Tony Manx]

So the real France turned up! French scrum edged toward dominance, tremendous energy to edge the breakdown, great half backs show the stupidity of previous selections……Fofana scores a winger's wonderful try…ironic or what!!

England under the cosh and deservedly behind on the scoreboard at half time when it is all down for them to prove they can be the team that they looked capable of becoming in the first two 6 N games.

Suddenly, PSA loses the plot (and the match) and puts Michalak on……..game over.

Take the best fly half on the field off and put the worst in the Championship on and later compounds it by taking Parra and Nyanga off …….

A fortuitous and "illegal" try and away they go!

A better bench, a competent, workmanlike, patient performance and huge will to win offset avoidable errors, a difficult scrum (before replacements) and line out performance and the Grand Slam dream goes on……but it was, as predicted by a certain Biarritz supporter, a close run thing!!

PS Sorry but Brown is not a winger and England need to find some!!

 

[Mr.cyclopede]

Definitive bad entry of Michalak that should have been a help and wasted the rare options we had in the last 20...
I still maintain that Joubert ref has been biaised, especially in the rucks, where les bleus were penalised for the same reason England should have been (players falling in opposite camp), and other specific ones (england collapse their maul by their own, no french player involved in it).
if someone have any valuable argument on the latest penallty against Fritz (who is alone his is camp, on both foot catching the ball versus 3 English of wich two of them haven't been able to clean the ruck they joined), thank of him.

Was expecting a heavy loss, would have prefered than this result

 

[Patchey]

And yet Brown did much better than Ashton, who is in fact 'a winger'.

Pleased with the win, got lucky with the try but I honestly believe the better team won.

 

[Tony Manx]

Joubert has been, although is not now, the best ref in the world and I understand that the French, in particular, feel that the refs are always against them when they are playing England but I do not go along with that.

Joubert made mistakes, no doubt, but biased....sorry do not go along with that! France lost because they have a crap coach and have forgotten how to win....they should have scored more points when they were on top in the first half but did not and then the substitutes came on..........

If you want a biased ref watch the guy reffing the Biarritz game to day!!!!

And yet Brown did much better than Ashton, who is in fact 'a winger

Exactly....England needs to find some!!

 

[Patchey]

England have plenty of good wingers, but don't get me started on that...

My point is that Brown does much better than people give him credit for. Safe under the high ball, makes yards and doesn't do anything stupid. We could do a lot worse.

 

[Tony Manx]

England have plenty of good wingers, but don't get me started on that...

I can understand that but Lancaster and Co do not seem to think so......

My point is that Brown does much better than people give him credit for. Safe under the high ball, makes yards and doesn't do anything stupid. We could do a lot worse.

I am not knocking Brown as a 15....I think he has been excellent for Quins although not really translated that into the English 15?

However, just as Michalak and Fofana have shown, when you play people out of their positions, they tend not to be the same player!

Unfortunately, Lancaster sees Brown as the only alternative for the wing because he is a good defensive full back and can make dazzling runs from there and Lancaster can not see anyone combining those qualities? Personally, I would prefer to play him at 15 instead of Goode but who would Lancaster deem capable to fill the gap with at wing..........

 

[j'nuh]

Must admit that I'm very disappointed in the lack of faith in Twelvetrees. If he cannot be trusted to close out a game with 4 minutes left and we are 10 points ahead, what is he doing on the bench and can Gloucester have their player back?

England still grinding to wins when they could do so much more...

 

[Surefire]

I was a big supporter Machenaud, and did not think there was a difference between him and Parra. This game really proved me wrong. Parra controls the game much better and I thought his defense was good. Still a fan of Machenaud, but I now see what most other posters thought that Parra is much much better

There were some good things to take away from the match, scrum looked solid, good ball movement and support. However we change a few players and it all goes down hill. I thought this tournament would be a judgement of PSA's coaching, and it looks like it is. Wonder if he would be replaced if France come away with the wooden spoon.

 

[Largejanner]

Where's French Flair ? Where are all the tries ?...where's the excitement in rugby, the magic ??...

......and where were the Germans? Frankly who cares!
Barry Davies. 1988.

 

[Tony Manx]

Must admit that I'm very disappointed in the lack of faith in Twelvetrees.

The only person in the back line who he could have replaced was Ashton as no one else needed or deserved to be replaced......why make changes for change sake? Lancaster has been guilty of this before and I hope he has learnt that it is not necessary.......too many coaches put players on with 4 minute or even one minute to go to gift them caps. 36's time will come but Manu and Barritt were doing OK and it is not a question of faith!!

 

[Mr.cyclopede]

Joubert has been, although is not now, the best ref in the world and I understand that the French, in particular, feel that the refs are always against them when they are playing England but I do not go along with that.

Joubert made mistakes, no doubt, but biased....sorry do not go along with that! France lost because they have a crap coach and have forgotten how to win....they should have scored more points when they were on top in the first half but did not and then the substitutes came on..........

Don't make me say what i've never did Tony, I've never told about any permanent anti french conspiration...
As you said, France should have score more when in its dominant period, especially in first half, but this would have been the case if the same penalties given to England would have been when given to her. Without these unbalanced penalties, England territory domination in the second half wouldn't have been so productive.

Subsitution have been crap for sure, and England knew that before the match and put the money on it with success.
France game plan is still very poor but the desert is hidden behind some magicians like Fofana or Picamoles.

Agree with Surefire about Parra, who is a scrum motivator where Machenaud is only a scrum half. This lack of catalyst was even more visible when no natural and recognised captain (Papé or Dusautoir) where present in the previous 2 matches)