England squad for SA tour

[Feicarsinn]

That's that then!
To be fair, it was always going to play out that way as he's a) a Tiger and b) a current international.
At least it means Barritt gets to play at 12 again.
Would still like to see Lowe or Joseph get a crack in the test side though.

Having not seen enough of them, do you think they're likely to be better at 13 than Tualagi?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Having not seen enough of them, do you think they're likely to be better at 13 than Tualagi?

When he's on top form? Probably not. Tuilagi may not have the skills of some centres, but he's very effective at what he does and sucks in so many defenders (i.e. vs Wales where he was being marked by Warburton the whole game effectively opening up a gap, and often drew in 3 players when he got the ball).
However Lowe outplayed Tuilagi in the final, and Joseph is just completely different to any of our other centres (and is like Wade in that he can make a try out of nothing/is stupidly agile).

All this talk of Tuilagi vs Lowe vs Joseph and I'd forgotten that Anthony Allen is touring as well - he could/should be pushing hard for that 12 shirt.
Allen/Tuilagi are the best centre partnership in the Prem, so makes sense to try it at international level. More so than Farrell/Barritt who aren't a great partnership at club level let alone international.
Barritt's defence is the best of any of our centres though, so he could be needed vs the Boks, and I don't think he should play 13, so it's him vs Allen (vs Farrell....).
Turner-Hall has been playing decent as well, but he'd be at the bottom of the list for me.

I'd be happy with pretty much any combination of our players, which is odd considering how long we went with having terrible centres.

9. Care vs Dickson vs (seemingly on form) Youngs
10. Farrell vs Hodgson vs Flood/Burns (Depending on if Flood makes it)
12. Barritt vs Allen vs Turner-Hall
13. Tuilagi vs Lowe vs Joseph

Not bad!

 

[psychic duck]

Tuilagi to 12?

with Lowe/Joseph to 13?

that would certainly be better than any midfield with Brad Barritt, Owen Farrell or Jordan Turner-Hall in it

 

[Teh Mite]

Tuilagi to 12?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Tuilagi is a 13 and nothing else. Took us long enough to actually play a 13 at 13, and regardless of the number of other 13s around I don't want our best one to be shoehorned in at 12.

Barritt, I feel, is underrated. Just need to find the right centre partner for him - him and Tuilagi work OK together but they're too similar. Him and Farrell don't work well together. Maybe 12. Barritt, 13. Joseph would work?
Would quite like to see that, actually...

 

[Feicarsinn]

Agreed, England have enough options in the centre without trying to ruin a player by moving him around.

 

[Sker]

Brad Barritt? Will he start? I hope he doesn't pull a Rathbone on us...

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Barritt was a starter throughout the Six Nations, either at 13 with Farrell at 12, or at 12 with Tuilagi at 13 (far better combination).
I imagine he'll start at least the first test.

Sent from my HTC Incredible S using Tapatalk 2

 

[Peat]

Actually, I'd quite like to see Tuilagi at 12. We have tons of 13s, but our 12s leave me a bit "meeeh"

Problem is, Tuilagi's not a 12. Nor does he look like learning the skills to make him one quickly. He doesn't really have the distribution or the footwork. His entire game is geared to 13.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Exactly. I wouldn't be adversed to trying one of the other 13s at 12 in a mid-week game (I'm not sure how Joseph would go there, to be honest, but Lowe could work), however with Anthony Allen getting recognition by England the need for this drops somewhat.

 

[Teh Mite]

Manu at 12, Foden on the wing, Geraghty at 12, Lawes at flanker... A selection of the "good ideas" the Stuart Barnes copycats have suggested in the past 12 months.

Dan Cole for fly half!

 

[ZeFrenchy]

Exactly. I wouldn't be adversed to trying one of the other 13s at 12 in a mid-week game (I'm not sure how Joseph would go there, to be honest, but Lowe could work), however with Anthony Allen getting recognition by England the need for this drops somewhat.

Manu Tuilagi, or even Lowe or Allen, against Wayne Stevens or Joubert Engelbrecht would be a massacre.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Manu at 12, Foden on the wing, Geraghty at 12, Lawes at flanker... A selection of the "good ideas" the Stuart Barnes copycats have suggested in the past 12 months.

Dan Cole for fly half!

Ben Youngs for tighthead prop (he's got the belly for it these days )

 

[Peat]

Exactly. I wouldn't be adversed to trying one of the other 13s at 12 in a mid-week game (I'm not sure how Joseph would go there, to be honest, but Lowe could work), however with Anthony Allen getting recognition by England the need for this drops somewhat.

Tuilagi has more potential as a 12 imo - he could be England's Nonu - and has more experience there to boot. If we were to conduct the experiment, I'd rather it was with him. Joseph and Lowe don't have his same sheer power as a fall-back option. They could be interesting Fofana-esque options, but it'd feel like a massive risk, as they'd have a very quick learning curve.

And, just to annoy teh Mite, Foden on the wing would be awesome... providing he could play there as well as he could at full-back. I don't see why he couldn't tbh, not if he spent a bit of time at it. But again - tons of full-backs, not so hot on the wings. But there we go.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Do you remember fodens one game on the wing for england? He had a shocker, positionally and just generally. He is by no means a winger, he is a broken field runnign full back.

On the subject of tuilagi if he learnt to pass then he could be a 12 but i doubt he will. England are still missing a really stand out 12 but i can see Barritt getting there eventually.

 

[Peat]

One game proves nothing. Yes, he'd have to work on his positioning, but he's a clever player and I believe he could adapt quickly enough, just as he'd have to adapt some of his running lines as well. It's not like wingers don't see tons of broken field as well (if you're doing it right)

Foden has the attributes to play just about anywhere in the backline outside 10 imo. Yes, he'd have to adapt his game a little in all cases, but if you wanted him to he could.

Frankly, it annoys me to look at Australia's backline where every man can play every position, and then to look at the number of English players with great athleticism and footballing skills who are seemingly locked into one position. It is a flaw in our rugby culture imo.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

One game proves nothing. Yes, he'd have to work on his positioning, but he's a clever player and I believe he could adapt quickly enough

Aye, especially as he's relatively new to fullback with most of his career being at scrumhalf. He adapted just fine.
I don't think he should play wing though, for what its worth.

 

[Draggs]

Who would you put at fullback if Foden was on the wing?
Brown isn't a bad fullback for the Quins, but Foden is miles better when on form.

 

[Wilko's left boot]

Frankly, it annoys me to look at Australia's backline where every man can play every position, and then to look at the number of English players with great athleticism and footballing skills who are seemingly locked into one position. It is a flaw in our rugby culture imo.

Agree with this. In England, it has got to the point where a lot of people think that versatility is a bad thing because it means you can't nail down one position. However, I think that people have caught onto this thought only because of a couple of players ruined by their versatility (at an international level at least) such as Matthew Tate.

 

[Peat]

Who would you put at fullback if Foden was on the wing?
Brown isn't a bad fullback for the Quins, but Foden is miles better when on form.

Assuming (hypothetically) that Foden is equally good at both - would you rather have Mike Brown at full-back in your team, or David Strettle on the wing?

For me its Brown. Or Alex Goode. Or Rob Miller. Lots of good full-backs. Not so many wings.