B
Bullitt
Guest
I'm more inclined to believe that when Carling says he doesn't want the job because he doesn't think he could do it, he wouldn't turn around 10 months later and take the job... *coughJohnsoncough*
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G
gingergenius
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Norfolk Enchants @ Jan 14 2010, 09:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Agree about Waldouck. When he and Cipriani are purring, there's no better 10-12 combination in English rugby. Maybe even European. He definitely deserves a chance with England - we've known he was special for 10 years. I even remember him, aged 13, practising goalkicking on his own at our club (Richmond) before a big final the next day. f***ing dedicated.
On to Cipriani. He is the best footballing fly half in England, by far. He takes the ball flat, his hands are awesome... same shape as Matt Giteau. However, his kicking game is shocking. Not just last year's charge-downs - his goalkicking, tactical kicking... is all wrong. Until he sorts this out, he cannot be picked ahead of players like Flood who have worked on the 'game management' side of being a fly half.
Also, interesting article by Carling. I agree with him, and I think Johnson has been overly loyal and stubborn - it was easy to blame the players last year, because the discipline was their own fault. But his selection policy has been very poor - he's shown far too much loyalty to players who haven't earned their place. England wants to be a world class side, and to be world class you must get rid of those there to make up the numbers (eg Payne) and try someone potentially world class but inexperienced (eg Coles). And picking players on attitude and training performance is ********. Judge their matchday performance, and that alone. Otherwise you get guys like Farrell, who clearly trained very well, but couldn't cut it come matchday.
Agree about Waldouck. When he and Cipriani are purring, there's no better 10-12 combination in English rugby. Maybe even European. He definitely deserves a chance with England - we've known he was special for 10 years. I even remember him, aged 13, practising goalkicking on his own at our club (Richmond) before a big final the next day. f***ing dedicated.
On to Cipriani. He is the best footballing fly half in England, by far. He takes the ball flat, his hands are awesome... same shape as Matt Giteau. However, his kicking game is shocking. Not just last year's charge-downs - his goalkicking, tactical kicking... is all wrong. Until he sorts this out, he cannot be picked ahead of players like Flood who have worked on the 'game management' side of being a fly half.
Also, interesting article by Carling. I agree with him, and I think Johnson has been overly loyal and stubborn - it was easy to blame the players last year, because the discipline was their own fault. But his selection policy has been very poor - he's shown far too much loyalty to players who haven't earned their place. England wants to be a world class side, and to be world class you must get rid of those there to make up the numbers (eg Payne) and try someone potentially world class but inexperienced (eg Coles). And picking players on attitude and training performance is ********. Judge their matchday performance, and that alone. Otherwise you get guys like Farrell, who clearly trained very well, but couldn't cut it come matchday.
C
Charles
Guest
From over the ditch, guys, I feel for you. Never thought I'd say that but hey, never say never .This selection really doesn't make sense.
Funny GG that you would say that about Cips because it's exactly what Trinh Duc is criticised for (by the ppl who don't see him play every week). He was bad last year but his kicking game has really improved this year.
Funny GG that you would say that about Cips because it's exactly what Trinh Duc is criticised for (by the ppl who don't see him play every week). He was bad last year but his kicking game has really improved this year.
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Bullitt
Guest
And the world replies to the squad announcement "MARTIN! YOU'RE A F-ING IDIOT!"
"No I'm not..." Martin sheepeshly responds...
"No I'm not..." Martin sheepeshly responds...
R
Rogue Gallery
Guest
All England need to do now is bring in
Full back Shaun Briscoe
Wing Ryan Hall
Centre Michael Shenton
Fly Half Sam Tomkins
Scrum Half Kyle Eastmond
in addition to Chris Ashton and Shontayne Hape.
Then we may see some open attractive Rugby.
It won't happen as the kicking donkeys will be showcasing their talents.
Full back Shaun Briscoe
Wing Ryan Hall
Centre Michael Shenton
Fly Half Sam Tomkins
Scrum Half Kyle Eastmond
in addition to Chris Ashton and Shontayne Hape.
Then we may see some open attractive Rugby.
It won't happen as the kicking donkeys will be showcasing their talents.
B
Bullitt
Guest
Nah, they're all too young.
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Fa'atau82
Guest
My selection:
1 - David Wilson
2 - Dylan Hartley
3 - Dan Cole
4 - Nick Kennedy
5 - Countney Lawes
6 - Tom Croft
7 - Lewis Moody
8 - James Haskell
9 - Danny Care
10 - Jonny Wilkinson
11 - Ugo Monye
12 - Jordan Turner-Hall
13 - Dan Hipkiss
14 - Chris Ashton
15 - Delon Armitage ©
16 PR - Andrew Sheridan
17 HK - David Paice
18 LK - Steve Borthwick
19 FL - Tom Rees
20 SH - Paul Hodgson
21 UTIL - Ben Foden
22 UTIL - Shane Geraghty/Toby Flood
fixed!
23 - FB Mathew Tait
24 - WG Mark Cueto
25 - FH Danny Cipriani
26 - SH Joe Simpson
27 - FL Steffon Armitage
28 - LK George Skivington
29 - HK Lee Mears
30 - PR David Flatman
1 - David Wilson
2 - Dylan Hartley
3 - Dan Cole
4 - Nick Kennedy
5 - Countney Lawes
6 - Tom Croft
7 - Lewis Moody
8 - James Haskell
9 - Danny Care
10 - Jonny Wilkinson
11 - Ugo Monye
12 - Jordan Turner-Hall
13 - Dan Hipkiss
14 - Chris Ashton
15 - Delon Armitage ©
16 PR - Andrew Sheridan
17 HK - David Paice
18 LK - Steve Borthwick
19 FL - Tom Rees
20 SH - Paul Hodgson
21 UTIL - Ben Foden
22 UTIL - Shane Geraghty/Toby Flood
fixed!
23 - FB Mathew Tait
24 - WG Mark Cueto
25 - FH Danny Cipriani
26 - SH Joe Simpson
27 - FL Steffon Armitage
28 - LK George Skivington
29 - HK Lee Mears
30 - PR David Flatman
B
Bullitt
Guest
31 Players?
F
Fa'atau82
Guest
Yeah. 32, actually. Cipriani counts for 2.
S
shtove
Guest
Confused about this Ashton selection. EPS squad in the paper didn't list him - I thought, FFS! But you guys reckon he's some sort of injury replacement? Mind games?
Ashton is superb for Saints - maybe even good enough for Ireland - but does England have players in the squad who can cut him loose? Toby Flood would be a BIG no no.
Ashton is superb for Saints - maybe even good enough for Ireland - but does England have players in the squad who can cut him loose? Toby Flood would be a BIG no no.
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Fa'atau82
Guest
That's who i'd pick, in an ideal selection. I don't see the point in having past-it veterans in the team purely because they've been there so long. You need a squad of players roughly at the same level progressing together. That way they will fight harder for places and results would come on that basis.
A lot of these players would have to grow into the roles. I still don't see the experiments with RL players working. Vainikolo was just in for a bit of muscle, kind of the Tuilagi effect and as for guys like Hape, he's a fair club player, i doubt he's test standard and besides, he's kiwi, played for NZ and it's wrong.
The point of having a squad is to get players into it and into roles. Players who are in form, should get called-up. Ashton is lighting it up at the mo in all competitions. Worth a punt. But what happens is the familiars end up in the squad because of who they play for. Like Deacon and Payne. Why call-up average club players, and ones who are over the hill or have done nothing more than mediocre throughout their career?
You can't teach and old dog new tricks. There aren't many stars in that team, but it's comfortable, versatile and it's youthful. A ot of growing to do. But, you can't gte instant success at national level, it's not Chelsea or Man City FC. Players come in, lose form and it's important we remain competitive, but we might have to accept we aren't going to win anything for maybe 2 seasons, but when other teams are in transition, it will come good.
A lot of these players would have to grow into the roles. I still don't see the experiments with RL players working. Vainikolo was just in for a bit of muscle, kind of the Tuilagi effect and as for guys like Hape, he's a fair club player, i doubt he's test standard and besides, he's kiwi, played for NZ and it's wrong.
The point of having a squad is to get players into it and into roles. Players who are in form, should get called-up. Ashton is lighting it up at the mo in all competitions. Worth a punt. But what happens is the familiars end up in the squad because of who they play for. Like Deacon and Payne. Why call-up average club players, and ones who are over the hill or have done nothing more than mediocre throughout their career?
You can't teach and old dog new tricks. There aren't many stars in that team, but it's comfortable, versatile and it's youthful. A ot of growing to do. But, you can't gte instant success at national level, it's not Chelsea or Man City FC. Players come in, lose form and it's important we remain competitive, but we might have to accept we aren't going to win anything for maybe 2 seasons, but when other teams are in transition, it will come good.
O
Olyy
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (shtove @ Jan 14 2010, 07:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Apparently it's because Vickery is injured, so the EPS is one player short, so they've "promoted" ashton from the saxons to the EPS until Vickery is back
B
Bullitt
Guest
It's a backdoor way of having unlimited choice in the EPS, showing just how pathetic the whole and unworkable agreement really is.
Not as though it matters as we're certain to have Banahan f***ing things up in the 14 shirt anyway.
Not as though it matters as we're certain to have Banahan f***ing things up in the 14 shirt anyway.
O
Olyy
Guest
I'm not too sure,
Johnson seems to love Cueto and Monye, i can't see him dropping either of them for banahan
But then again, Banahan scored our only try in the AIs, so maybe Johnson is thinking "People want tries...he scored the most for England in the AIs, therefore people want Banahan!" =/
Johnson seems to love Cueto and Monye, i can't see him dropping either of them for banahan
But then again, Banahan scored our only try in the AIs, so maybe Johnson is thinking "People want tries...he scored the most for England in the AIs, therefore people want Banahan!" =/
B
Bullitt
Guest
Never forget you can't spell "Biased Mafia from Bath forever ruining English rugby and looking after their own interest ahead of that of the sport" without RFU.
Hense Banahan (and Hape) will play.
Why else would Lee Mears have ever won a cap? It certainly wouldn't be for his ability to play rugby.
Hense Banahan (and Hape) will play.
Why else would Lee Mears have ever won a cap? It certainly wouldn't be for his ability to play rugby.
M
mohamed_ali12
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bullitt @ Jan 14 2010, 08:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
You make so many f***ing ridiculous statements.
Banahan shouldn't start for England, no, as he is not quite as good or experienced (yet) as Ugo Monye or Mark Cueto, but he is a quality player and just the guy you want when you're looking for something different. He is a proven try-scorer and brings other players into the game, not to mention sucking defenders away, creating space. He's a rookie in the international arena and with just 5 tests i think his tally of 3 tries is pretty good considering Wilkinson/Goode failed to get the ball past their inside centre 9 times out of 10! I mean seriously, England's game plan would make any player look ****.
Then Lee Mears, who has been the best hooker in the country since Thompson. Considering he broke his neck and Hartley only arrived on the international radar a couple of years ago that would explain the fact that he has his caps. Not only this, but his consistency over this period lead to a Lions call mostly due to his faultless line-out throwing and fantastic play in the loose (try watching some videos of him with Matt Stevens at the beginning of last season).
Also, i think we all pretty much get your views on the RFU, so you don't need to bring it up every time a Saints player doesn't get picked for England.
You make so many f***ing ridiculous statements.
Banahan shouldn't start for England, no, as he is not quite as good or experienced (yet) as Ugo Monye or Mark Cueto, but he is a quality player and just the guy you want when you're looking for something different. He is a proven try-scorer and brings other players into the game, not to mention sucking defenders away, creating space. He's a rookie in the international arena and with just 5 tests i think his tally of 3 tries is pretty good considering Wilkinson/Goode failed to get the ball past their inside centre 9 times out of 10! I mean seriously, England's game plan would make any player look ****.
Then Lee Mears, who has been the best hooker in the country since Thompson. Considering he broke his neck and Hartley only arrived on the international radar a couple of years ago that would explain the fact that he has his caps. Not only this, but his consistency over this period lead to a Lions call mostly due to his faultless line-out throwing and fantastic play in the loose (try watching some videos of him with Matt Stevens at the beginning of last season).
Also, i think we all pretty much get your views on the RFU, so you don't need to bring it up every time a Saints player doesn't get picked for England.
B
Bullitt
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ali12 @ Jan 14 2010, 09:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Oh dear, looks like I said nasty things about Bath...
Oh dear, looks like I said nasty things about Bath...
M
mohamed_ali12
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bullitt @ Jan 14 2010, 09:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Oh dear, looks like I said nasty things about Bath...
[/b][/quote]
Or.... it could be the fact that it would be quite nice to read a thread about the England national team where there isnt a dossier on the supposed corruption within the RFU and the supposed anti-saints conspiray.
Oh dear, looks like I said nasty things about Bath...
[/b][/quote]
Or.... it could be the fact that it would be quite nice to read a thread about the England national team where there isnt a dossier on the supposed corruption within the RFU and the supposed anti-saints conspiray.
B
Bullitt
Guest
Be my guest, please find me one "Oh boo hoo hooo, there's not enough Saints" post in this thread.
Edit: Or for that matter, anytime in the past 4 years by me. Betcha can't find one.
Edit: Or for that matter, anytime in the past 4 years by me. Betcha can't find one.
M
mohamed_ali12
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bullitt @ Jan 13 2010, 06:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bullitt @ Jan 14 2010, 08:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Admittedly, there may not be a pro-Foden/Hartley rant in this particular thread, but eventually your 'rants' do end up with the summary that the said players are ignored because of the club they play for, not, perhaps (and don't get me wrong - im sure i'm incorrect with this) that they are, i don't know, unconfident under the highball, or say temperamental and inexperienced. Not to mention the fact that in the positions they prefer there are already quality internationals.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bullitt @ Jan 14 2010, 08:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Admittedly, there may not be a pro-Foden/Hartley rant in this particular thread, but eventually your 'rants' do end up with the summary that the said players are ignored because of the club they play for, not, perhaps (and don't get me wrong - im sure i'm incorrect with this) that they are, i don't know, unconfident under the highball, or say temperamental and inexperienced. Not to mention the fact that in the positions they prefer there are already quality internationals.
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