England Six Nations thread

[McTallshort]

Locks should only carry in the tight, when the ball is slow and someone needs to take the ball in and everyone else can realine. Nothing worse than the ball spreading wide and a big lumbering second row taking the pass instead of a winger. The only exception is when Tom Croft is playing 2nd row as he is faster than most wingers.

 

[Peat]

Also, on the topic of Sarries... when you think about the quality players at Sarries, you think nearly exclusively in terms of the pack. Vunipola x2, Burger, Brits, Brown, Joubert, Fraser, Kruis, Johnston etc. The success of Sarries is down mostly to their pack. It's just unfortunate that there are so many Englishmen in the backline to take the kudos of a winning team.

This is very true. It's also unfortunate that we're using a recent Sarries backs coach/defence coach who's using the Sarries defence model.

Locks should only carry in the tight, when the ball is slow and someone needs to take the ball in and everyone else can realine. Nothing worse than the ball spreading wide and a big lumbering second row taking the pass instead of a winger. The only exception is when Tom Croft is playing 2nd row as he is faster than most wingers.

I think your view of locks is out of date. If you look at the major young locks around the world now - Etzebeth, Whitelock, Retallick, Gray - you see guys with real acceleration and great hands. Look at England - both Launchbury and Lawes can play 6 at AP level at the very least, as can Slater and Kruis. Kitchener has the gas and hands to do so.

Also, an awful lot of sides deliberately put a big man out wide. I'm not sure why but it's not an accident. Rob Penny's Munster in particular frequently have a lock out wide. I think it's partially due to the fact there's not often much space out wide and a big lock who can make ground and then get the ball back safely on his own side is more value than a winger who might get driven back or bundled into touch. If there is just a winger there you also have a potential mismatch in that the big man should be able to at least half-break the tackle. Lots of possible reasons.

 

[Maverick1987]

This is very true. It's also unfortunate that we're using a recent Sarries backs coach/defence coach who's using the Sarries defence model.



I think your view of locks is out of date. If you look at the major young locks around the world now - Etzebeth, Whitelock, Retallick, Gray - you see guys with real acceleration and great hands. Look at England - both Launchbury and Lawes can play 6 at AP level at the very least, as can Slater and Kruis. Kitchener has the gas and hands to do so.

Also, an awful lot of sides deliberately put a big man out wide. I'm not sure why but it's not an accident. Rob Penny's Munster in particular frequently have a lock out wide. I think it's partially due to the fact there's not often much space out wide and a big lock who can make ground and then get the ball back safely on his own side is more value than a winger who might get driven back or bundled into touch. If there is just a winger there you also have a potential mismatch in that the big man should be able to at least half-break the tackle. Lots of possible reasons.

Also useful to have a lock on the wing to stop others from getting isolated and turned over . Useful to have a big un' to hit the ruck

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Stick locks everywhere! I think it's a shame England have as many injuries as they do. Would especially liked to have seen if we had better attack with Wade and Yarde fit in the team. I really hope Lancaster doesn't go for the tried and failed backs of before. Pretty confident about our forwards on the whole, everything after 8 has me wondering though (except for Brown).

 

[j'nuh]

Meh. May > Yarde/Wade. Glad he'll get a shot. Probably. Hopefully.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

May > Wade.

Ummm?

 

[ratsapprentice]

Meh. May > Yarde/Wade.

 

[Maverick1987]

This is the second funniest thing I've seen today after the comment it's about that May is better than yarde and wade

Although it sets us in good stead because if you rate may so highly J'Nuh then we must be well off for wingers cos he's like the 6th best wing we have

 

[j'nuh]

Although it sets us in good stead because if you rate may so highly J'Nuh then we must be well off for wingers cos he's like the 6th best wing we have

Wha-?

Being serious for a sec, I understand May/Wade/Yarde being around the same quality. But who are these three other mysterious wingers that you think are above May? :huh:

Apart from Sinbad.

 

[Maverick1987]

Anyway after the announcement of the squad my team for the France game would be

1.Marler
2.Hartley
3.Cole
4.Launchbury
5.Lawes
6.Wood
7.Robshaw
8.Billy V
9.Wigglesworth (although this is one area I'm really unsure of)
10.Farrell (too early for ford?)
11.May
12.36
13.Burrell
14.Watson
15.Brown

16.Mullan
17.T.Youngs
18.
19.Attwood
20.Morgan
21.Youngs/Care
22.Ford
23.Nowell

I've left 18 empty because I can't remember who's in in Wilson's place is it Thomas ?

 

[Maverick1987]

Yeh that was awesome . I didn't see that game . Does he do this regularly though ?

 

[Maverick1987]

Wha-?

Being serious for a sec, I understand May/Wade/Yarde being around the same quality. But who are these three other mysterious wingers that you think are above May? :huh:

Apart from Sinbad.

We'll I like Watson and Nowell too . Although there isn't a lot between any of them and are all fairly unproven at international level

 

[j'nuh]

Yeh that was awesome . I didn't see that game . Does he do this regularly though ?

No player does 40+m tries too every week. But kinda, I suppose:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lx3MuGQJjvk

He's a very deadly finisher, great strike rate, especially considering how few tries Glos are getting for this season and last. I'm just eager to see what he can do in a stronger team than Gloucester.

 

[Maverick1987]

No player does 40+m tries too every week. But kinda, I suppose:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lx3MuGQJjvk

He's a very deadly finisher, great strike rate, especially considering how few tries Glos are getting for this season and last. I'm just eager to see what he can do in a stronger team than Gloucester.

Sorry I didn't mean the 40+ meters I meant more along the lines of coming infield and breaking the line . I do really like May as you can see above I've put him in my team to play France

Tbh when I said he was 6th best it was a bit tongue in cheek Gloucester ribbing

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

I just thought I'd get hung up on unimportant details. For a change right?

Personally I don't mind the assertion that May is better than Yarde. I like the latter, but not quite sure why Lancaster is so convinced the guy is ready when by comparison every other guy who has played for England in the last few years has had to prove it over the course of seasons, not just a handful of games. Wade has spent years now showing up the various premiership wingers in different ways, and only just started to be recognised.

Wade has been by far and away the best winger in the premiership for a few years now, with James Simpson-Daniel arguably not too far behind. Certainly, the impact he has had week in week out has been pretty unparalleled in my view, playing in what has been for a while until now a lower-mid table wasps side.

Edit: Johnny May, feel welcome to do that for England too !

 

[Aedaphon]

Wade has been by far and away the best winger in the premiership for a few years now, with James Simpson-Daniel arguably not too far behind. Certainly, the impact he has had week in week out has been pretty unparalleled in my view, playing in what has been for a while until now a lower-mid table wasps side.

So I don't disagree that wade has been fantastic for a while now, but just on a physical level, he has more to prove than many of his competitors. Undeniably he is amazing going forward, but at his height and weight Wade really does have to prove (more so than others who can compensate with bulk) that he won't be a liability.

Now, I'm all for Wade being included- but I don't think it's unreasonable to act more conservatively when it comes to international fixtures.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Aedaphone: usually my response to this point is just to blindly deny the evidence
But yes, it is the elephant in the room, being honest.

What I can say, is that his size has yet to cost Wasps in any given situation that I can recall.
Certainly I'd be worried to see him up against the likes of Savea... but I can say the same of many proven international wingers

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Shane Williams and Jason Robinson spring to mind for 2 short, good wingers. Yes he may have to prove himself but being short as a winger doesn't have to be a liability.

 

[B10]

I think everyone is a bit unsure of our scrum half at he moment.

Is there much chance Dan Robson or Ben Spencer could break into the squad before the World cup? Glos/Saracens fans?

 

[glawsfan]

I think everyone is a bit unsure of our scrum half at he moment.

Is there much chance Dan Robson or Ben Spencer could break into the squad before the World cup? Glos/Saracens fans?

I would be surprised if Robson made it. At the moment he isn't first choice for Gloucester although when he's played he has been impressive. He has a great kicking game and good positioning.

With Cowan leaving at the end of the season I hope Robson will be given the chance to be our number 1 scrum half next year.