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England Six Nations thread

Dunno man. Lancaster has been hinting heavily at seeing Tuilagi as a possible wing.

Makes quite a lot of sense in some ways, as you keep the distributors in midfield and then add the Manu threat.

Aye, I can see that actually - nothing to stop him roaming the midfield as well.
I would question his pace/kicking/skill under the highball as a long term winger, but Alesana had a fine career with pretty much the same skillset as Manu (if not a little more limited).
 
I'd rather have Tuilagi on the bench as a replacement centre and emergency wing than a wing all together . We have some cracking wings . Fed up of people being played out of position tbh
 
There is a very big difference between starting out of position and coming off the bench out of position.
 
There is a very big difference between starting out of position and coming off the bench out of position.

Oh of course like I say he's probably going to be there to come on as centre (I hope) with the capability of covering IC, OC and wing . Plus both wings can cover full back and our IC can cover outside half we basically have every area covered in case of emergency . I'd still love to see Burrell at 12 and Tuilagi at 13 with a scrum half, ford and eastmond on the bench in my opinion we would have our most potent attacking threats in the 23 then on the presumption Yarde comes back into the team at some point

I would say with the competition we have in literally every position Tuilagi is going to have to go away and add a few strings to his bow imo offloading and passing which shouldn't be a problem . Hard to deny with his hard ball carrying he's the most destructive player in the NH . I feel he is a little hard done by because he's played with Barritt in the centres for almost all of his England career . Would be great to see what he can do outside of a genuine distributor like eastmond . England are certainly in a good place at the minute though depth wise and if someone as good as Tuilagi can be replaced this easily everyone should be looking over their shoulder !
 
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Nice to see that Burrell has kept his place as he has done more than enough to prove himself.

Feel a bit for the Italians though. Imagine having Burrell run at you for 60+ minutes only to have a fresh Tuilagi come off the bench.
 
Nice to see that Burrell has kept his place as he has done more than enough to prove himself.

Feel a bit for the Italians though. Imagine having Burrell run at you for 60+ minutes only to have a fresh Tuilagi come off the bench.

they'll be fine, they've got Masi coming off the bench - he's not a small man by any stretch.
 
Aye, I can see that actually - nothing to stop him roaming the midfield as well.
I would question his pace/kicking/skill under the highball as a long term winger, but Alesana had a fine career with pretty much the same skillset as Manu (if not a little more limited).

Tuilagi had played at wing for tigers at the earlier stages of his career I don't know if he is international standard.

~I don't buy into the idea that Tuilagi doesn't distribute he has been used by England as a one trick pony because he was the only attacking threat, He has a great offload and a decent pass when you play to into it, the back 3 he had to work with were, Brown (on the wing and is poor on the wing) Ashton (no reason needed) and Goode (same as Ashton) at tigers he does offloads and creates try's for others. I think him and Burrell would be a interesting partnership as would him and 36 (have Tuilagi and 36 played with each other at England yet?).

It is great to see actually options coming into the backline now.
 
Interesting that Burrell mentions that it could be him who shifts to the wing?

Quotes from Burrell: (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ru...ion-Manu-Tuilagi-bring-Englands-midfield.html)

'Manu's been a huge player for England in that 13 jersey so I've got the utmost respect for him,' said Burrell.


'If he was to take the jersey off me, then I'll happily shake his hand, as he will do if I'm playing. I had a good luck message from him at the weekend and there's no animosity there.


'At the moment I've got 12 and 13 on my rugby CV. It's good to be able to adapt across the centres and if I were to move onto the wing, that would be fine as long as I'm representing my country and the coaches have faith in me.


'Me and Billy have got a brilliant combination at the moment. I think we're really connecting well and competition from Manu could potentially knock me, or Billy, out but that competition's healthy.'


 
Why, though?
Burrell started out as a winger, and has played a lot more there than Tuilagi.
I don't think either of them is going to move to wing full time, but if I had to choose one to fill a gap there it'd definitely be Burrell.
 
Burrell doesn't seem to be the sort of player who beats defenders in the way that either a fast, stepping winger might, or in the way that a massive wing like Alessana Tuilagi might.
With Manu, I like the idea that we can could seen him come off his wing in the way that North has often been used for Wales, and I also like the idea of seeing him run from deeper.
Also, Burrell may some some experience on the wing but he was still found out there for Fickou's try, so it's not like he'd be a guaranteed source of stability. I think Burrell has done incredibly well to adapt to a new position at a whole new level of rugby, and it just seems harsh to move him to a third position so soon after he's found his feet. Tuilagi meanwhile is an experienced player at international level and will have the confidence to give it a go.
 
Another cap to Matt Mullan then!

Anyone else think England goes for, and getting, a 50pt win this weekend is possible?

Possible yes. However Ireland beat them by 39 in a very dominant game and have generally been better in attack than us. Also realistically we need more than 50 if Ireland win. The biggest win England have ever got over Italy is 60 and that was back in 1999. In 2011 we beat them by 46. Although it is possible I'd say it's extremely unlikely. We need France to beat Ireland to win.
 
Possible yes. However Ireland beat them by 39 in a very dominant game and have generally been better in attack than us. Also realistically we need more than 50 if Ireland win. The biggest win England have ever got over Italy is 60 and that was back in 1999. In 2011 we beat them by 46. Although it is possible I'd say it's extremely unlikely. We need France to beat Ireland to win.

we beat them 80-23 in 2001.

Not sure what the biggest win in rome is though.

It's interesting to look at the results, for the most part they've gradually got closer each year.

*Edit: 12-59 in Rome 2000
 
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Will Greenwood has written a column today calling for England to aim to score big. As my earlier post indicates, I'm keen to see that happen.

Of we go out hard, play sensible, attacking rugby and kick to the corner a bit more than usual I don't see any reason why we can put a big score on Italy. Perhaps not the 49pts we need to draw level with Ireland but if we don't try we'll never know.
 
I genuinely think that if we had our full strength team we could put 60 points on Italy. With Corbs and Cole we would dominate their scrum, vunipola off the base of the scrum(Morgan is still brilliant though) and for this type of game Croft would be a real handful. Yarde and Wade on the wings can beat men and rip apart defences. Is it wrong to be slightly aroused by a Brown-Yarde-Wade back three ? But being honest we wont get close to 50 on the board. I think we could get 35/40 at the most because we normally leave 15/20 points on the pitch. Then again I said we would only get 18 points on Wales, and if we got 29 points on them surely we can get a further 20 possibly on Italy ?
 
I think the England coaches will be rueing that intercept try considering Ireland only won by 2pts. it was always going to be a long shot, and there is a danger of the oppo getting tries like that when you're chasing a big score, but I think the intercept try and the following fifteen minutes really shows that we still have a lot of areas to improve upon. Our execution under pressure and game management was, for all of the tries, quite sloppy at times.

That being said it was a hell of an attacking performance and a hell of a tournament for us. Important win over Wales and gutsy performances against Ireland and France. There is a convincing argument that had our set piece not died in the last quarter of the Scotland game we could have scored a few more tries and made the Rome game less important. All in all though I don't think second place is an unfair reflection upon where this England squad is.

Because I'm trying to slack of work here are some player ratings. Forwards first, backs later if I can be bothered:

Dan Cole: Average to good when he was playing but, assuming that his injury heals well, an enforced break from rugby will probably do him a world of good. Looks very tired and seemed to be the only player trusted on that side of the scrum. We (and Tigers) need to learn to use him more sparingly. 6.5

Dave Wilson
: Came into the tournament half way through with less than an hour of rugby under his belt since injury. Was understandably rusty in his first game but really showed how good a scrummager he is and that he can also contribute to our carrying. Only ever looked under pressure at the scrum for a shortish spell against Wales. I would like to see him start more, or if he does get benched in favour of Cole, come on earlier (see later). 7.5

Henry Thomas: Probably the player we were all the most worried about going in to the tournament. Wisely he was usually brought on at the same time or after Dave Attwood which probably helped his scrummaging a lot. Don't remember him giving away any penalties but he certainly wasn't solid. His relatively short cameos also didn't give him much time to show his wares in the loose. Average. 5

Dylan Hartley: Unsung hero of the pack IMO. His line out accuracy seems to be improving all the time and he's getting better in the scrum (less popping up). I know a lot of guys here don't like him, mainly because of his discipline, but its hard to argue that him being of form is key to the pack working well. However I'm never convinced about his loose work and his silly penalties against Wales and disruption of his own back line against Italy have to count against him. 7

Tom Youngs: I think we all know what I'm going to say here... Whatever was done to Youngs to sort his line out throwing up to and including the Lions tours needs to be repeated, pronto. I have a theory that the new scrum laws and the work he's had to do learning to hook may have effected the time he can spend on his throwing. While his scrummaging and carrying is very good I can't see past the fact that having a hooker who can't throw in really shouldn't be tolerated. If we want Youngs to stay in the squad he either sorts his throwing out or we teach a wing to chuck the ball in line its the 1970s. Dave Ward, Webber (if fit) or Tommy Taylor would have been better IMO. 4

Joe Marler:
He's really come into his own this season, both for club and country. Put on some weight over the summer and has adapted well to the new laws. While we're always going to miss a scrummager line Corbs I think it is fair to say Joe is good enough at the set piece that we don't miss Corbs that much. Also looks good carrying the ball. 7

Mako Vunipola: Its interesting to note how, like most of England's Lions tourists, Mako's stock has fallen. Maybe its Sarries rotation policy or a bit of secon season syndrome but Mako's scrummaging is well behind Marler's (case in point being yesterday, when a second strong Italian front row was ruining our scrum largely by turning him inside out). He carries very well and is always looking for the offload, in a way he's a slower version of his brother! Overall thought he had an average to good tournament but he is clearly England's third choice prop on that side now. 6.5

Matt Mullan:
Made a brief cameo and was solid. Happy enough with him as birth/injury cover but I suspect we wont see much more of him otherwise. 6

Courntey Lawes:
I don't feel the need to say much here. Lawes is finally developing into the player he has threatened to be since the 2010/11 season. A monster in the loose, clearly more than competent in the scrum and a bit of a 'line out general'. Not a typical 'enforcer' of the Brad Thorne mould but he gets the job done and does it well. 8

Joe Launchbury:
Makes the short list for player of the tournament IMO. Successor to Richard Hill in terms of the amount of graft he gets through largely unnoticed. He covers so many yards and makes so many tackles as well that yo've got to wonder what they're feeding him at Wasps. I thought he was slightly better than his second row partner, mainly due to his silly work rate. 8.5
Dave Attwood: Left me wishing he'd had more game time. However good a starting paring Lawes and Launchbury have been its clear than Attwood is worth more than a five minute cameo. His carries and tackles are massive and I strongly suspect his scrummaging propped up Thomas a lot. Can't think of anything he did wrong other than not get on the pitch sooner! 8

Chris Robshaw: Solid performances on the pitch, great leadership and his first England try. There may always be some who question if Robshaw is really as good as he is made out to be. However he, like Launchbury, does all the gritty work well and without complaint. He also tackles very well and when a team are as unified on the pitch as England are now you know their captain is doing his job well. 7

Tom Wood:
Like Robshaw, Wood often gets lumped with a lot of the graft that rarely makes the highlight reels. He's working very well at the line out and you cannot fault the passion he shows. Arguably not the best option at 6 we have, despite being a very good international player. Can't say he's done anything to deserve loosing his place though. 7

Billy Vunipola: His tournament was annoyingly short but showed, just like he did in the autumn, how destructive a player he is. He's also learnt to catch the ball since leaving Wasps (useful) and has the smarts to look for the offload rather than just try and cannonball his way through on his own. 7.5

Ben Morgan
: Glos fans will probably be wondering where this Ben Morgan has been all season. Was good off the bench in the first half of the tournament and showed when he started that he is a able, if not identical, replacement for Billy. He draws defenders too him when he carries and is a very intelligent player. Also showed against Italy that he does have 80mins in him. 8

Tom Johnson: Solid, unimaginative, would have preferred Kvesic. 5.5

I'll do the backs later if I can be botheres or anyone cares. Anyone think I'm being unfair?
 

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