England Six Nations squad 2022

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

2019: "RWC final with a low average age, with this experienced core we can build and be a formidable force by 2023"

2022: "All new back row. All new half-backs. All new centres. All new back three. All new bench."

Granted not entirely unwelcome, but this doesn't feel like progress.

Quite an unfair assessment IMO.

Back row: 2/3 of 2019's starters are injured/recovering, and are likely to start when fit (maybe not Underhill, but definitely Curry).
Centres: 2019's centre pairing oscillated between Farrell-Tuilagi and Tuilagi-Slade, but of those 3, 2 are currently injured and would likely start if fit, and the other has started every game of the 6N, so the centres aren't all new.
Back three: 2/3 of 2019's starters are injured/recovering, and are likely to start when fit. The other is still in the squad, likely to start at either centre or wing.

Bench: Marler, Youngs and Ford were all there in 2019, so once again, not all new.

 

[Which Tyler]

Quite an unfair assessment IMO.

Back row: 2/3 of 2019's starters are injured/recovering, and are likely to start when fit (maybe not Underhill, but definitely Curry).
Centres: 2019's centre pairing oscillated between Farrell-Tuilagi and Tuilagi-Slade, but of those 3, 2 are currently injured and would likely start if fit, and the other is has started every game of the 6N, so the centres aren't all new.
Back three: 2/3 of 2019's starters are injured/recovering, and are likely to start when fit.

Bench: Marler, Youngs and Ford were all there in 2019, so once again, not all new.

Yep, I know we're all supposed to be saying how little clue Eddie has, doesn't know what he's doing, doesn't know his preferred XV, isn't getting time into his starters, is discarding players too soon etc etc etc.
But...
I think we all pretty much know what his RWC squad would be if selected tomorrow, and his first choice 23 for that matter.

If this weekend was a RWC quarter final, and everyone was fit and in an some semblance of form.
LHP: Marler & Genge (+ 1 other, a good chance that Mako would still be 3rd choice.)
HK: George & LCD (+ 1 other)
THP: Sinckler & Stuart (+ 1 other)
LK: Itoje, Hill, Launchbury/Ewels (with the other in the wider squad)
BR: Lawes, Underhill, Curry & Dombrandt (+ Willis and Simmonds/Vunipola in the wider squad)
19
SH: Youngs & Randall (+ probably Quirke)
FH: Smith if ready by then, Ford if not
CE: Farrell, Tuilagi & Slade (+ Marchant in the squad)
B3: Watson, Steward & Nowell/May/Cokanasiga depending on form (+Malins in the squad, with the least in form of those 3 left at home)
13
If it's anything other than that, it's most likely to be an injury (or both May and Coal failing to find any form), or a bolter (say Barbeary or Radwan taking to international rugby like a duck to water) - or something insane, and he only takes 2 SHs... again...

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Decided to check on who of EJ's current 1st choice side (obviously can't be certain on this and I'm sure others will have different ideas, but I'm just gaining a general idea) were involved in 2019, and what the extent of their involvement was:

1. Genge - was in the squad.
2. LCD - was on the bench.
3. Sinckler - was a starter.
4. Itoje - was a starter.
5. Hill - new.
6. Lawes - was a starter, albeit at lock.
7. Underhill - was a starter.
8. Curry - was a starter, albeit at blindside.
9. Randall - new.
10. Smith - new.
11. May - was a starter.
12. Farrell - was a starter, although sometimes at 10.
13. Tuilagi - was a starter, although sometimes at 12.
14. Watson - was a starter.
15. Steward - new.

16. George - was a starter.
17. Marler - was on the bench.
18. Stuart - new.
19. Launchbury - was in the squad.
20. Dombrandt - new.
21. Youngs - was a starter.
22. Slade - was often a starter.
23. Daly - was a starter.

So of the current 23: 13 were starting, 2 were on the bench, 2 were in the squad and only 6 have been introduced since. So yeah, I'd say that EJ's claims that he was going to continue to develop his 2019 team and build their experience for 2023 was fairly spot on.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

TBH I don't think it's so much that EJ changes too much or too little, it's that he will change a lot in some places and not at all in others, seemingly regardless of the quality of players chosen or available. To beat that dead horse, see Ben Youngs and Farrell. Whilst the whole team has changed around these 2, short of injury they were always in despite clearly not performing. On the flip side, new players were brought in, didn't even do particularly badly and would then be swapped out for someone else. It's more that many of the changes just make no sense. We have some clear weaknesses in the team that have been there for years that he would completely ignore but would chop and change like crazy in areas where it wasn't really needed. Many of these changes are also these stupid experiments that pop into his head, rather than doing something sensible, and wasting player development by capping them out of position, picking a player and then immediately trying to change them into something else.

He'd then have prime opportunities to make changes and wouldn't take them and then would suddenly introduce mass changes at a time where we would want to look at more consistency, eg apparently happily sacrificing the 6N but not using the autumn cup to change anything.

 

[Reiser99]

His use of subs has also got worse. In his early days I feel he used them more and they actually fit the idea of finishers. Now it's so inconsistent with some regularly not being used at all or with only a few minutes which is pointless

 

[Scotty]

So ive been thinking with Malins been left out why isnt he our 23 and been getting experience as second choice FB, having a more attacking FB on the bench that covers every thing from 10 to 15. Get Daly gone.

But anyway with May having less form and Watsons injury record and Nowell not being the quickest,

Who are the next lot of wingers coming through fighting for them slots (out and out wingers i mean)

Ranwan
OHC
Odogwu
Thorley
But who next? Who else could take over post WC?
Doesnt get enough gametime to be considered but ive always rated Sleightholme when ive seen him.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

So ive been thinking with Malins been left out why isnt he our 23 and been getting experience as second choice FB, having a more attacking FB on the bench that covers every thing from 10 to 15. Get Daly gone.

But anyway with May having less form and Watsons injury record and Nowell not being the quickest,

Who are the next lot of wingers coming through fighting for them slots (out and out wingers i mean)

Ranwan
OHC
Odogwu
Thorley
But who next? Who else could take over post WC?
Doesnt get enough gametime to be considered but ive always rated Sleightholme when ive seen him.

You've gotta hope Coka will eventually come good.

 

[Which Tyler]

So ive been thinking with Malins been left out why isnt he our 23 and been getting experience as second choice FB, having a more attacking FB on the bench that covers every thing from 10 to 15. Get Daly gone.

But anyway with May having less form and Watsons injury record and Nowell not being the quickest,

Who are the next lot of wingers coming through fighting for them slots (out and out wingers i mean)

Ranwan
OHC
Odogwu
Thorley
But who next? Who else could take over post WC?
Doesnt get enough gametime to be considered but ive always rated Sleightholme when ive seen him.

This is probably my bias kicking in*, but I'd have Coka and Muir, and possibly McConnochie ahead of everyone mentioned.



* I'm just back from playing, and my bias definitely increases with alcohol

 

[BPM]

I rate Muir. I don't know if I'd picked him out as a test winger, but I think he's one of those players who I think is just awkward to play against who can be effective at any level.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I rate Muir. I don't know if I'd picked him out as a test winger, but I think he's one of those players who I think is just awkward to play against who can be effective at any level.

He's also deceptively strong, in otherwise poorly performing Bath I've seen him clatter clean through defenders when he speed and agility hasn't worked. Very useful from 1m out.

 

[Noonz]

So ive been thinking with Malins been left out why isnt he our 23 and been getting experience as second choice FB, having a more attacking FB on the bench that covers every thing from 10 to 15. Get Daly gone.

But anyway with May having less form and Watsons injury record and Nowell not being the quickest,

Who are the next lot of wingers coming through fighting for them slots (out and out wingers i mean)

Ranwan
OHC
Odogwu
Thorley
But who next? Who else could take over post WC?
Doesnt get enough gametime to be considered but ive always rated Sleightholme when ive seen him.

Murley seems to be going well at Quins

 

[Scotty]

Right so a deserved loss and fair play to France.

EJ and other coaches need looking at thats fair but Playerwise what do we need to change?

So id like to see JWillis in the mix as well as Quirke.

We need to stick with Smith Marchant and Dombrandt

What do you lot think needs to happen? And dont say anything about the coaches please.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I agree with Quirke and Willis if Curry is injured

But wouldn't stick with Smith starting and would have Alfie or Billy in at 8.

Would bring Kelly in.

 

[Scotty]

I agree with Quirke and Willis if Curry is injured

But wouldn't stick with Smith starting and would have Alfie or Billy in at 8.

Would bring Kelly in.

Happy for Kelly in but why not stick with Smith? And what do you suggest?

 

[Scotty]

Also hate to say it but we missed Billy to a degree and didnt try Barbs to have that carrier.

 

[JG-21]

For me I'd want a back row of Barbeary and 2 of Curry, Underhill and Willis. Get Quirke straight in. Kelly at 12, and I'd like to see Radwan and Cokanasiga on the wings.

 

[NickBD]

You wouldn't pick Smith? He wasn't amazing but was pretty decent. Nothing he can do when you an every changing back row, slow 9s all tournament, change the centres every game and slow wingers out of position or who can score.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Under Eddie I would have him in the squad but I would give Ford the start.

If we are playing a tactical kicking game why not pick the best player for it?

And it's not like Ford is a crap passer and game manager.

 

[Which Tyler]

Ideally, we need to stick with Smith; but from the bench as he gets used to the increased pressure at this level and actually earns a starting shirt by being better than Ford. However, I do understand a desire to get as many test minutes into him as possible before September 2023.

Inside him, Youngs needs to be deposed and sent into exile - but then, we've been saying that for what? 7 years now.

Outside of them, Marchant and Steward need to stay; we need some wingers back from the physios, as our last one got crocked today.

Then at IC we seem to have the choice of Farrell, Slade or Tuilagi - the latter is great, but we can't trust that he'll actually play in any match until they've finished the warm-up, whilst a choice between Farrell and Slade at IC is 2 bald men arguing over a comb. Can't wait for Kelly and Ojomoh to be ready. Dan might just about make it in time for the RWC (in which case, take him with us to Aus), but I think Max has left it too late for that, especially in competition with Redpath for a shirt in a dysfunctional club side.


Up front, whilst I have opinion, I fully appreciate that they're relatively uninformed

 

[Lé Ddanno]

Smith needs more time, bench him for a while. He looked panicky or trying to force things at times today.

Dombrandt and Marchant stay. As Tigs says, start looking at Kelly at 12 before Scotland invent a granny for him. Give Northmore some minutes off the bench, as well as OHC, Murley, a.n other winger

Bin Ewels forever, Isiekwe and Chessum can duke it out for the second lock spot if Launch isn't around. Hill and Martin need more of a look at 6 and Heyes or Collier as 3rd (maybe 2nd) choice TH.

And after today, what do we do if Curry is injured?

If only this was happening a year ago