England Rugby 2020/21 Thread

[Jashay]

I'm a little surprised at how het up people are about Barbeary. Like Mitchell and Umaga, they're just there as backups / squad integration. The fact that Jones only gave Dunn about 2 mins total shows that he thinks George can go for a full 80 if needed

I doubt we're going to see an adventurous squad. Watson starts, Lawrence might start, a few subs might shuffle.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I'm a little surprised at how het up people are about Barbeary. Like Mitchell and Umaga, they're just there as backups / squad integration. The fact that Jones only gave Dunn about 2 mins total shows that he thinks George can go for a full 80 if needed

I doubt we're going to see an adventurous squad. Watson starts, Lawrence might start, a few subs might shuffle.

But that's not right though. Squad members are there because they might be needed. I can't think of a rugby tournament where we haven't called in additional players because they've been needed.

So if we do need to call on a third choice hooker or SH I don't want them in the squad just for experience, I want them to be third choice and be ready.

If George goes down in training and we end up calling up Dunn to the bench and ignoring Barbeary then we will have missed Dunn in training all week. Or the other option is to Barbeary on the bench which would be a joke, he doesn't deserve it at all.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I'm a little surprised at how het up people are about Barbeary. Like Mitchell and Umaga, they're just there as backups / squad integration. The fact that Jones only gave Dunn about 2 mins total shows that he thinks George can go for a full 80 if needed

I doubt we're going to see an adventurous squad. Watson starts, Lawrence might start, a few subs might shuffle.

George may be able to go the full 80, but this is about options if he or LCD are injured or out of form.

Mitchell and Umaga appear to be the next cabs off the rank. Wouldn't be my choice, but there is some logic there.

Barbeary's situation is different. If he had shown that he can handle the set piece in the league I wouldn't have an issue with him being included as he clearly has a lot to offer. But he hasn't and as far as I can see has only started 2 senior games with no appearances at all in the front row.

Barbeary has said that he wants to play hooker. I hope that Pests respect that and don't try to turn him into Ashley Johnson mark 2.

 

[Jashay]

I get the need for a third choice hooker, but as things stand both George and LCD are fit and playing well. I'm struggling to remember when EJ last picked anyone else when both were available. In that context, does it really matter if it's Dunn or Barbeary who don't play?

And if one gets injured I think EJ can call up Dunn anyway, right? Losing a week's training isn't going to make or break Dunn, but this is Eddie's first chance to get Barbeary into the camp to have a look at him.

I've got no problem with us getting the exciting new prospect into camp in a secure position before what is essentially a nothing fixture.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I get the need for a third choice hooker, but as things stand both George and LCD are fit and playing well. I'm struggling to remember when EJ last picked anyone else when both were available. In that context, does it really matter if it's Dunn or Barbeary who don't play?

And if one gets injured I think EJ can call up Dunn anyway, right? Losing a week's training isn't going to make or break Dunn, but this is Eddie's first chance to get Barbeary into the camp to have a look at him.

I've got no problem with us getting the exciting new prospect into camp in a secure position before what is essentially a nothing fixture.

Given how EJ has treated him, it wouldn't surprise me if Dunn told him to get stuffed. It's the perfect example of getting mixed signals. Repeatedly brought in to the England camp and actually used but the caps are so pointless he may as well not have them. If you wanted a textbook example of how to **** with a players hopes and emotions, what EJ has been doing with Dunn is it. I normally think what coaches do at times is just idiotic but what EJ is doing with Dunn goes beyond that, it's verging on malicious. He's completely screwing around with him. Now to top it off he's dropping him for some kid who has barely played hooker. Yes Barbeary looks like he has tons of potential but it is just another thing to add to the list of how EJ is messing Dunn about.

 

[klitarris]

Given how EJ has treated him, it wouldn't surprise me if Dunn told him to get stuffed. It's the perfect example of getting mixed signals. Repeatedly brought in to the England camp and actually used but the caps are so pointless he may as well not have them. If you wanted a textbook example of how to **** with a players hopes and emotions, what EJ has been doing with Dunn is it. I normally think what coaches do at times is just idiotic but what EJ is doing with Dunn goes beyond that, it's verging on malicious. He's completely screwing around with him. Now to top it off he's dropping him for some kid who has barely played hooker. Yes Barbeary looks like he has tons of potential but it is just another thing to add to the list of how EJ is messing Dunn about.

On the face of it I'm inclined to agree, but we don't know what conversations EJ has had with Dunn. I get the impression that frank and honest communication is not a problem of EJ's so he's probably been in constant comms with him to ensure he doesn't just see Barbeary coming in to the squad to move him down the pecking order. As others have said already, Barbeary is clearly/most likely not there as a genuine matchday squad option.

It would be interesting to see what would happen if George or LCD did become unavailable at the last minute though - I suspect Dunn would get a phone call very quickly. I guess it's a toss up between keeping someone in camp for the training exposure with minimal chance of actually playing, or allowing that player to go back to their club to actually play in a match, accepting the minimal risk that they would be have to be called back up at short notice to cover for an injury. Personally, I'd go for the latter.

That said, if I were Dunn I'd be well peeved at the playing time I'd been given this Autumn!

 

[Scotty]

If itncam down to it id say EJ being EJ would keep barberybas third option and use him as backrower in a 16 shirt and baring injury George would play 80 and barbeary MIGHT get 5 min off then bench. France have a severely depleted squad so EJ can afford to take a risk.

In no way deserves it over dunn who is a very good all round player who wont let you down and will work hard.

So ive bearly seem Barbeary play? What makes him such a prospect?

 

[Ferrari333SP]

 

[TRF_Olyy]

So ive bearly seem Barbeary play? What makes him such a prospect?

Very good carrier, almost like a centre in that regard
As a hooker, though, no one knows - he's never played there as an adult

I don't really get the OTT hype tbh, especially when Thacker has shown that hookers can play like backs but set piece (or lack thereof) is still the thing that's most important

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Guess the difference is Olly
Thacker - 5ft 8 93KG
Barbeary - 6ft 116KG

Thacker slips off tackles, Barbeary runs through tackles.
And it pains me as I don't like bigging up Wasps but he is most likely the most promising ball carrier in English rugby atm.

That being said I hope they start focusing him at Hooker soon because he isn't in the same league as the back rowers currently in terms of all round skill, Maybe that's why Eddie wants him in camp to access his hooker skills.

IDK him and Freddie Steward are 2 U20's who have really started the season strongly and IMO in positions where we don't have as many obvious selections outside the established ones already.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Guess the difference is Olly
Thacker - 5ft 8 93KG
Barbeary - 6ft 116KG

Thacker slips off tackles, Barbeary runs through tackles.

True enough, but all elementary until we see Barbary actually play at hooker - Akker is a fantastic player but I wince everytime we have a lineout.
I'm just not buying into the hype yet - he wasn't even first choice at u20s, he was 2nd/3rd behind Capon/Dolly.

If he was a backrower then yeah, fair enough he looks fantastic

 

[BPM]

Isn't he a couple of years younger than Capon and Dolly though? I think he was playing for the U20s when he still qualified for the U18s.

So far he is living up to the hype as a ball carrier/physical beast, but I agree that a hooker needs to have a good set piece game to be truly viable at test level.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Isn't he a couple of years younger than Capon and Dolly though? I think he was playing for the U20s when he still qualified for the U18s.

Just googled and he's 1yr younger

I'm not ******** on the guy or anything, just think there's big question marks over him as a hooker because he's not played there at senior level.
If he turns out to have a good set piece then fantastic - because the rest of his game is top level at such a young edge. But who knows?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Just googled and he's 1yr younger

I'm not ******** on the guy or anything, just think there's big question marks over him as a hooker because he's not played there at senior level.
If he turns out to have a good set piece then fantastic - because the rest of his game is top level at such a young edge. But who knows?

Listen we get you're a sale fan.
You are the peak of seeing backrowers play at hooker and seeing them suck at the lineout.
Let us have this.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Listen we get you're a sale fan.
You are the peak of seeing backrowers play at hooker and seeing them suck at the lineout.
Let us have this.

Maybe Wasps can get him some time in the centres and we can have Tom Youngs 2 on our hands

 

[Which Tyler]

Maybe Wasps can get him some time in the centres and we can have Tom Youngs 2 on our hands

I thought LCD already had that nickname sewn up?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Maybe Wasps can get him some time in the centres and we can have Tom Youngs 2 on our hands

You mean British and Irish lion Tom Youngs

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I thought LCD already had that nickname sewn up?

You're a brave man to even joke about LCD not being the best hooker to have ever played the game

 

[Reiser99]

You're a brave man to even joke about LCD not being the best hooker to have ever played the game

Well let's face it, most of his tries come from others standing in front of him doing most of the work anyway.

 

[Goodey]

Well let's face it, most of his tries come from others standing in front of him doing most of the work anyway.

Not true, there are also the tries where the opposition just throw it to him on their own line