England Rugby 2020/21 Thread

[TRF_Olyy]

Joseph had a back-spasm (I thought he'd done his hamstring) and is possibly in contention for this weekend,

Ford has an achilles injury, unlikely to be ready for this weekend but should play in the tournament at some point,

Marler has a knee injury but is likely to feature at some point this tournament,

Wilson back doing rehab at Newcastle (tbh I'd remove him from the EPS entirely and allow him to make his comeback for Newcastle rather than dropping him straight into test rugby - considering he's only playing about 80? 90? minutes since the world cup)

England provide update on Joseph, Ford ahead of Ireland clash

Jonathan Joseph was helped off at Twickenham during the win over Georgia and England have now provided an update on his situation.

www.rugbypass.com

 

[Scotty]

Autumn Nations Cup: Luke Cowan-Dickie and Anthony Watson return to England squad - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/55048325

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Umaga and Furbank out, as well - both injured.

Looking forward to seeing Watson in the 2nd row

 

[Scotty]

Umaga and Furbank out, as well - both injured.

Looking forward to seeing Watson in the 2nd row

Willis in too. Id love to see 6 Willis 7 Curry 8 Billy. 20 Underhill( id rather someone other than billy at 8 but not worth thinking about.)

I like the thought of 60 minutes underhill comes on and makes 20 brutal hits to finish the game

 

[Which Tyler]

Autumn Nations Cup: Luke Cowan-Dickie and Anthony Watson return to England squad - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/55048325

Poor Tom Dunn.
I guess he'll finish his England career with 3 caps and 93 seconds

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Poor Tom Dunn.
I guess he'll finish his England career with 3 caps and 93 seconds

Jones be like "well he didn't perform in those 93 seconds mate, he should have scored at least 2 tries". I'm genuinely ****** off with how Jones is treating Dunn, either give him some proper game time or drop him, don't keep him in this stupid limbo. It's **** poor player management and really a dick move. At least if you are dropped you know where you stand, Jones is just completely ******* with him and preventing him from playing for Bath.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Surely he's gonna drop him now that LCD is fit?

If he doesn't get released back to back for this weekend I'll he very surprised

 

[Scotty]

Poor Tom Dunn.
I guess he'll finish his England career with 3 caps and 93 seconds

Whats is pay per second on the pitch for England? About £550 a second? Haha

 

[FLOBALOB]

Jones be like "well he didn't perform in those 93 seconds mate, he should have scored at least 2 tries". I'm genuinely ****** off with how Jones is treating Dunn, either give him some proper game time or drop him, don't keep him in this stupid limbo. It's **** poor player management and really a dick move. At least if you are dropped you know where you stand, Jones is just completely ******* with him and preventing him from playing for Bath.

He could have given him 15 mins in both the Italy and especially the Georgia game. To put him on in last few seconds in 3 matches is just taking the ****.
If i was Dunn i'd be boiling inside, especially as he knew he'd be replaced once LCD came back. Like you say Awful man management.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Joseph injured (calf) and released,
Marchant, Umaga and Barbeary in

Has Barbeary played hooker at senior level yet? I get that he's flashy but if he's not trusted to play his position at club level, and he's not on the same level as our other flankers as a flanker, why is he getting called into the squad?

 

[Which Tyler]

I don't think it's that he's not trusted to play hooker for Wasps as they want to round out his skills all over the pitch, so is covering holes elsewhere.

As for England - he fully deserves an apprentice role. I hope it's not more than that just yet, we do have this habit of over-hyping a good young player and ruining them before their career has properly started

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I don't think it's that he's not trusted to play hooker for Wasps as they want to round out his skills all over the pitch, so is covering holes elsewhere.

I don't buy that, not anymore - it made sense in his debut/first couple of appearances, but he's into his 2nd season playing backrow now, and he's starting there too.
I'm guessing Wasps see his future on the Flank rather than hooker (Barbeary/Willis/Willis backrow?)

He's not been named as an apprentice, but a full squad member (swapped for Dunn) - apparently was going to be in the initial squad but had COVID so couldn't be named.



Backs
Joe Cokanasiga (Bath Rugby, 9 caps)
Elliot Daly (Saracens, 46 caps)
Owen Farrell (Saracens, 87 caps)
George Ford (Leicester Tigers, 71 caps)
Ollie Lawrence (Worcester Warriors, 3 caps)
Max Malins (Bristol Bears, 2 caps)
Joe Marchant (Harlequins, 4 caps)
Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby, 60 caps)
Alex Mitchell (Northampton Saints, uncapped)
Dan Robson (Wasps, 6 caps)
Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 33 caps)
Ollie Thorley (Gloucester Rugby, 1 cap)
Jacob Umaga (Wasps, uncapped)
Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby, 45 caps)
Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 103 caps)

Forwards
Alfie Barbeary (Wasps, uncapped)
Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, 25 caps)
Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, 27 caps)
Ben Earl (Bristol Bears, 7 caps)
Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby, 17 caps)
Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers, 22 caps)
Jamie George (Saracens, 53 caps)
Jonny Hill (Exeter Chiefs, 3 caps)
Maro Itoje (Saracens, 42 caps)
Joe Launchbury (Wasps, 68 caps)
Joe Marler (Harlequins, 71 caps)
Kyle Sinckler (Bristol Bears, 39 caps)
Will Stuart (Bath Rugby, 7 caps)
Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby, 21 caps)
Billy Vunipola (Saracens, 55 caps)
Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 63 caps)
Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs, 18 caps)
Jack Willis (Wasps, 2 caps)

 

[Reiser99]

I don't buy that, not anymore - it made sense in his debut/first couple of appearances, but he's into his 2nd season playing backrow now, and he's starting there too.
I'm guessing Wasps see his future on the Flank rather than hooker (Barbeary/Willis/Willis backrow?)

He's not been named as an apprentice, but a full squad member (swapped for Dunn) - apparently was going to be in the initial squad but had COVID so couldn't be named.

I'm not going to comment on ability as I haven't seen enough of him, but if Jones sees him as a hooker for the future then why not? Jones clearly has a first and second choice and even Dunn at 3rd choice barely gets any game time. What's the point of calling up a 4th choice hooker. Instead why not give some experience to a potential future starter? Who else would you have?

Taylor clearly isn't favoured by Jones anymore.
Singleton possibly.
I'd like to see Thacker given a go, but again I don't think he's what Jones is looking for.

Basically with one game to go I'd rather give someone experience of being in the squad who needs it rather than call someone up who won't benefit as much, won't play and will just miss out on a week's rugby.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Who else would you have?

Dunn

Instead why not give some experience to a potential future starter?

Is he though?
I've literally seen him play hooker once and he got red carded about 90s after coming onto the pitch.

I'm not buying into the hype until he's actually played hooker at senior level - looks a good prospect as a flanker, but lets see him at least pack down at 2 once ever before saying he's the future.

 

[BPM]

I don't buy that, not anymore - it made sense in his debut/first couple of appearances, but he's into his 2nd season playing backrow now, and he's starting there too.
I'm guessing Wasps see his future on the Flank rather than hooker (Barbeary/Willis/Willis backrow?)

He's not been named as an apprentice, but a full squad member (swapped for Dunn) - apparently was going to be in the initial squad but had COVID so couldn't be named.



Backs
Joe Cokanasiga (Bath Rugby, 9 caps)
Elliot Daly (Saracens, 46 caps)
Owen Farrell (Saracens, 87 caps)
George Ford (Leicester Tigers, 71 caps)
Ollie Lawrence (Worcester Warriors, 3 caps)
Max Malins (Bristol Bears, 2 caps)
Joe Marchant (Harlequins, 4 caps)
Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby, 60 caps)
Alex Mitchell (Northampton Saints, uncapped)
Dan Robson (Wasps, 6 caps)
Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 33 caps)
Ollie Thorley (Gloucester Rugby, 1 cap)
Jacob Umaga (Wasps, uncapped)
Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby, 45 caps)
Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 103 caps)

Forwards
Alfie Barbeary (Wasps, uncapped)
Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, 25 caps)
Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, 27 caps)
Ben Earl (Bristol Bears, 7 caps)
Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby, 17 caps)
Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers, 22 caps)
Jamie George (Saracens, 53 caps)
Jonny Hill (Exeter Chiefs, 3 caps)
Maro Itoje (Saracens, 42 caps)
Joe Launchbury (Wasps, 68 caps)
Joe Marler (Harlequins, 71 caps)
Kyle Sinckler (Bristol Bears, 39 caps)
Will Stuart (Bath Rugby, 7 caps)
Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby, 21 caps)
Billy Vunipola (Saracens, 55 caps)
Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 63 caps)
Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs, 18 caps)
Jack Willis (Wasps, 2 caps)

He's played a total of 7 appearances that may have straddled two seasons, but it's not as though we're talking about lots of actual game time.

Lee Blackett only said about 2wks ago that they were integrating him in to senior rugby but the plan remains for him to develop as a hooker.

 

[BPM]

Dunn

FWIW, I would too. Barbeary has got massive potential, but until he's playing regularly for Wasps at hooker, I can't see how we can possibly look at him as a serious hooking option with England.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Lee Blackett only said about 2wks ago that they were integrating him in to senior rugby but the plan remains for him to develop as a hooker.

Something must be up with his hooker playing, though, surely?
No other player has had this sort of treatment - I could understand if like his rucking or carrying needed work so they stick him in the backrow to work on that and not worry about his core skills, but they pretty clearly don't need the work as he's smashing the f*** out of being a backrower!

I've said it a millions times: I want my front rowers to be the best at their actual jobs before looking at their "nice to haves", and shielding his experience from throwing and hooking could just lead us to having another Tom Youngs.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

FWIW, I would too. Barbeary has got massive potential, but until he's playing regularly for Wasps at hooker, I can't see how we can possibly look at him as a serious hooking option with England.

Ref the other thread, if you thought Dombrandt was a work in progress not ready for the international game.......

Mad decision. Lad's obviously highly talented but shouldn't be near the squad yet. I guess this is just to see what its all about, an apprentice in all but name, albeit that was a ridiculous concept in itself.

If I was Dunn I'd be lobbing toys out of prams and vowing to retire from internationals right about now and I should think there will be quite a few in the squad pretty p*ssed off at his treatment too. Given we're playing Fra B this was a good chance to give some of the fringe players like him a decent run out to see what they can do.

Financially now isn't the right time but I really we wish we could bring back the Saxons so we can get a good look at promising players at that intermediate level.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

So if one of our hookers goes down in training we would really have Barbeary in our match day 23, that sounds like some Eddie planning right there.

Just curious if Dunn didn't impress in training or in his cameos.

 

[Reiser99]

So if one of our hookers goes down in training we would really have Barbeary in our match day 23, that sounds like some Eddie planning right there.

Just curious if Dunn didn't impress in training or in his cameos.

Clearly cameos. With 30 seconds on the clock he easily should have got a hat trick.