England Post-WC discussion

[stus768]

I don't understand Dan Cole at the breakdown. Does he not get analysis done? If he does y don't they say 'Every time u go near a breakdown the opposition get 3 points. Stop it.'

It's not worth it for the (very) occasional turnovers and penalties if 90% of the time we lose a pen.

 

[j'nuh]

Agreed on most of that, which is why I don't think we are in an absolutely terrible position right now. If Lancaster leaves, he leaves us in a much healthier state than what Johnson left us in. We don't need to overhaul the squad, just tinker with a few positions and improve tactically. At least 2/3 of this WC squad should be making the next EPS by my reckoning.

Only contentious point is on Robson. He's good in an open game. His running and kicking are brilliant. His game control isn't top notch though, it's part of the reason Glos kept Laidlaw on the field for 70+ minutes most tight games. Simpson is probably a better choice right now, although I wouldn't put it past Robson to be ready for it come Six Nations time.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Don't know why Robson went Wasps.

Should have been Exeter really.

 

[Tony Manx]

Agreed on most of that, which is why I don't think we are in an absolutely terrible position right now. If Lancaster leaves, he leaves us in a much healthier state than what Johnson left us in. .

Not hard but in general I agree! But Johnson was stupid to accept a suicidal offer from the RFU following public pressure!

Lancaster has done many things right but one wonders how strong he really is in the coaching committee meetings!!

 

[Irish boy]

Stepping away from the world cup for a second, selection for the midfield going forward needs to be got right. You look at the players coming through:

Ford, Slade, Hill, Joseph, Daly, Eastmond, Devoto. There are probably more but those are just off the top of my head.

Looking at that, we simply cannot rely on defence to win games any more. There is alot of emphasis on it and rightly so, defence will win you games, if you have complete control but suck the life out of teams. Our forwards just cannot do that and are a penalty magnet at the minute. Rumours still abound Tuilagi is moving abroad so you can't use that and I get the impression Barritt will be chucked under the bus for that.

Going forward if we pick defence as the building blocks for England it simply won't work with the type of dainty centre we're producing, or half back. You can Robson and Farrell to the list. We have to attack basically.

Another player for your backs is Alex Lewington he's going to have a breakout year

 

[j'nuh]

Exeter already have 2 of our ex scrummies. Any more would look a little like tapping up.

But yeah, I kind of get why Wasps would want him. If Simpson fails to execute a game plan, you can bring Robson on in the knowledge that he's like-for-like and it won't upset the rhythm of your entire team. But trading competition with Laidlaw for competition with Simpson is a bit of a strange move from Robson. He'll get more game time, but I'm not sure why he didn't go somewhere where he'd be the starting 9.

 

[ratsapprentice]

I'd be very happy to see Lancaster vacate the coaching job, but move into Rob Andrew's position.

Don't think he'd be too happy about it though... he sees himself as a track-suited coach, unfortunately I don't think that's where his strength lies (at an elite level, anyway).

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I'd be very happy to see Lancaster vacate the coaching job, but move into Rob Andrew's position.

Yes yes yes.
I've been saying for a while that Lancs seems a good manager/man manager/culture guy but not a top level coach.
Andrew shouldve been binned off years ago.

 

[Peat]

Not so sure about that myself. What if the issue is the players can't pick up what needs to be learned in the time available and that they are coming from their clubs with too many weaknesses in their skillset? I know I'm reversing a little, but Rowntree still has quite a formidable reputation.

Some of the issues I think will be very hard to fix. The AP doesn't really put enough emphasis on the breakdown for my liking and thus we struggle to produce players who produce there. I also think we've got a serious lack of guys who are both quick and powerful. I don't enjoy having to pick there tbh.

edit: I think Lancaster's next big move is teaching other coaches. He seems a good communicator, a good technical coach - the traits that I think would be needed.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Ja... he'd be a fantastic DOR/NFL style GM.

And as much as I think some of the premiership's best coaches would be great England coaches, I do worry about the holes they would leave in our domestic coaching.
So I would be fairly open to a foreign coach - particularly if Lancaster is still involved up top.

 

[Tony Manx]

Ja... he'd be a fantastic DOR/NFL style GM.

And as much as I think some of the premiership's best coaches would be great England coaches, I do worry about the holes they would leave in our domestic coaching.
So I would be fairly open to a foreign coach - particularly if Lancaster is still involved up top.

Crickey! Unanimity is breaking out!!

 

[SelimNiai]

Yes yes yes.
I've been saying for a while that Lancs seems a good manager/man manager/culture guy but not a top level coach.
Andrew shouldve been binned off years ago.

What does Andrew even do?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Lancaster would be a good spin doctor for the media for the RFU.

 

[Wendigo7]

Not hard but in general I agree! But Johnson was stupid to accept a suicidal offer from the RFU following public pressure!

Lancaster has done many things right but one wonders how strong he really is in the coaching committee meetings!!

From what I've seen on other forums, alot of the decisions are being differed to Farrell and Catt, but let's not get into that.

 

[Tony Manx]

From what I've seen on other forums, alot of the decisions are being differed to Farrell and Catt, but let's not get into that.

No, let's not,but just because you read it, does not make it true!!

 

[Peat]

Doesn't necessarily make it true, but does fit the facts we're seeing.

What does Andrew even do?

"Rob Andrew was appointed Rugby Operations Director in April 2011, having spent five years as the RFU’s Elite Rugby Director, playing a major part in the RFU’s development and, in particular, a key role in reaching an eight year agreement between the RFU and Premier Rugby Ltd, which ensured closer communication between the two parties and the England Senior EPS squad having more time training and preparing prior to major matches throughout the season.

He continues to manage that agreement and relationship, maintaining a positive and balanced approach to the needs of the clubs and the national team.

In his Rugby Operations Director role in the lead up to RWC 2015 he works collaboratively to optimise competition structures, including working with the IRB,ERC,PRL and The Championship; player, coaching and referee development; sports medicine and sports science; and research and innovation and managing the RFU’s relationship with the RPA and Championship clubs."

It's basically doing everything rugby related that the RFU need that isn't coaching one of the teams insofar as I can see. I'm not sure Lancaster has the administrative chops to execute it - I certainly wouldn't want him negotiating with PRL.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

May not be true but Lancaster has also been keen to play those backs IMO.

 

[stus768]

Exeter already have 2 of our ex scrummies. Any more would look a little like tapping up.

But yeah, I kind of get why Wasps would want him. If Simpson fails to execute a game plan, you can bring Robson on in the knowledge that he's like-for-like and it won't upset the rhythm of your entire team. But trading competition with Laidlaw for competition with Simpson is a bit of a strange move from Robson. He'll get more game time, but I'm not sure why he didn't go somewhere where he'd be the starting 9.

At least at glos he got game time when laidlaw was on int duty

 

[Crapspray]

I'm not sure Lancaster could be shuffled somewhere into the corridors of the RFU. The main reason being what happens to the remaining coaches? It looks awful if the head coach is promoted out of the firing line while his assistants get chucked - or, what would be even worse, that they stay on underneath a new head coach. Lancaster, like Johnson, can't really go anywhere but down or out after this job.

The only way I could see him manage it is if he gets a GM role somewhere in the Premiership/Pro12/Top14, before returning post-2019 to do something similar to Andrew. And, of course, turning out to be useful in that GM role.

Meanwhile Baxter, King, Gustard, and Sanderson form the coaching dream team.

 

[stus768]

Meanwhile Baxter, King, Gustard, and Sanderson form the coaching dream team.[/QUOTE]

You missed Steve Borthwick!