England Post-WC discussion

[ratsapprentice]

The premiership isn't exactly overflowing with good coaches though - taking all of those guys would leave our domestic coaching in a pretty decrepit state.

 

[j'nuh]

Lancaster isn't a terrible coach, he's just out of his depth on the international game in the current England setup, and he has made some poor decisions. There are plenty of coaches that fail in one environment and thrive in another. Mike Ford failed as an international coach and is doing well as the DOR at Bath. Andy Farrell was doing well at Sarries before he joined England. Redpath made Gloucester look great for a while, but was then removed from the Sale head coach role later on, etc. Outside of rugby, see guys like Mourinho and Benitez.

I think Lancaster could comfortably lead a top club and I think he'd do well, especially if he made some good assistant coaching appointments. He could then move back into international coaching in time, as he's still very young for a coach. England just didn't work out very well for him this time round. A different set of players and a different set of coaches and we might be saying something different.

Honestly, if Lancaster gave Farrell "an honourable discharge" and restructured his coaching team and mentality a little, I'd be open to him staying a while longer.

 

[stus768]

I think the RFU really need to look at their hiring policy. They have consistently brought in the wrong people and allowed them to have the wrong staff around them. Brian Ashton, Johnson, Lancaster. None of whom were up for the job.

 

[Tony Manx]

Lancaster isn't a terrible coach, he's just out of his depth on the international game in the current England setup, and he has made some poor decisions. There are plenty of coaches that fail in one environment and thrive in another. Mike Ford failed as an international coach and is doing well as the DOR at Bath. Andy Farrell was doing well at Sarries before he joined England. Redpath made Gloucester look great for a while, but was then removed from the Sale head coach role later on, etc. Outside of rugby, see guys like Mourinho and Benitez.

I think Lancaster could comfortably lead a top club and I think he'd do well, especially if he made some good assistant coaching appointments. He could then move back into international coaching in time, as he's still very young for a coach. England just didn't work out very well for him this time round. A different set of players and a different set of coaches and we might be saying something different.

I could go along with that and would suggest the set up at Northampton as an example of how it would work for/with him!

I think the RFU really need to look at their hiring policy. They have consistently brought in the wrong people and allowed them to have the wrong staff around them. Brian Ashton, Johnson, Lancaster. None of whom were up for the job.

Did not Ashton get lumbered with his assistants? It was either him or Robinson!

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I would LOVE for Lancaster to go to Saints!

 

[Crapspray]

You missed Steve Borthwick!

An ex-England captain, who used to play lock, with little to no coaching experience? No thanks. Been there, done that.

The premiership isn't exactly overflowing with good coaches though - taking all of those guys would leave our domestic coaching in a pretty decrepit state.

True. It seems inevitable we'll complete the Kiwi takeover of Home Nations' rugby. Could go left-field and hire a Saffa...

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

An ex-England captain, who used to play lock, with little to no coaching experience? No thanks. Been there, done that.

Or Borthwick the ex England captain who has turned Japan's Lineout into the best Lineout in the World Cup ATM.

 

[j'nuh]

That's sports for you. Like in football, of the 92 league clubs, only 6 managers have served longer than 4 years. 46 managers (i.e. half of them) have been in place for less than a year. Finding a coach that will unleash your team's potential is fairly difficult.

 

[stus768]

I think u need someone to stay in the role for an extended period to unlock that potential. But you need to bring in the right person. Most of the list of England coaches had no proven success record. And Andy Robinson seems to get very good reviews as s coach but has little success at the top.

I do think that the coaches below must be changed regularly to keep ideas fresh.

 

[Hulkster]

Whoever is in charge after the WC, one thing we have to avoid is this scenario we see time and again whereby the new coach comes in and seems willing to play what you might call 'flair' players but then resorts to size and 'solidity' as soon as he runs into pressure or adversity.

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Whoever is in charge after the WC, one thing we have to avoid is this scenario we see time and again whereby the new coach comes in and seems willing to play what you might call 'flair' players but then resorts to size and 'solidity' as soon as he runs into pressure or adversity.

Front row: Cole should not feature post-WC unless the other contenders have been given a good run amd not come up to standard. He is a walking penalty at the breakdown and his scrummaging is overrated. Brookes would be next in like followed by Thomas. There dont seem many alternatives to Marler and Mako at lh so they probably keep their place for thr time being. At hooker, Tom Youngs is an impact sub amd no more. Give Jamie George a run. We cannot have our second row choices impaired because of the hooker's throwing deficiencies.

Second row. First choice pairing would be Itoje and Launchbury.

Back row: Ewers is blindside. Vunipola can retain the 8 shirt, but like it or not Hughes is coming into the equation. Openside. I'm sorry but it is nonsense for England to continually struggle at the breakdown, whilst Europe's premier breakdown specialist is not picked for political reasons. Until another quality 7 emerges, we have to pick him and deal with it.

Scrum half. No one is convincing. Personally I would give Simpson a go.

Fly half. Cipriani is the man. He lies somewhere between Farrel and Ford in what he brings and is subsequently a more rounded and better player than either.

Centres. I think Burgess can still have a role as an impact sub, but I would not select him there as a start and certainly not if he isn't playing there for Bath. My choice would be Slade 12 and Joseph 13. Some excellent alternatives in Eastmond, Daly.

Back three: no changes needed. Brown possible Captain? I would like us to find a way if incorporating Wade. The backup to Brown would be Watson going to the wing and there is a wide choice of wingers to take his place.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Bring back SCW.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Diamond Mallinder Dream Team™

 

[MrTea_32]

I'd like to see sir Clive back

 

[McTallshort]

What makes all or coaches go so conservative when it really matters? Lancaster last night, Johnson against France. They always error on the side of caution. What the hell does BB actually bring to the side? I will tell you what the same as Jamie Noon did nothing. FFS can it really be so difficult to win a six nations given the resources and players we have? Every time we fall at the big hurdles all we hear is that lessons have been learnt and its all part of development blah blah blah. Utter hogwash, why do we insist on picking head coaches who have no proven track record at international level? Ashton, Robinson, Johnson and now Lancaster. Are we a poor union? Can we not afford the best? Or are we just crap at selecting coaches and then for some reason shocked when they are crap at selecting players?

 

[Peat]

I don't think the players we've had for the last twelve or so years have been much good and that should really be considered quite strongly when blasting the coaches.

I am also mystified we've got seven years without a head coach with a real record of working successfully with players prior to taking the job mind.

 

[McTallshort]

We have had just as good players as Wales have had and they seem to make do.

 

[stus768]

I don't think the players we've had for the last twelve or so years have been much good and that should really be considered quite strongly when blasting the coaches.

I am also mystified we've got seven years without a head coach with a real record of working successfully with players prior to taking the job mind.

What we've lacked in true world class we've made up for in the quantity of players at an acceptable standard.
I believe that conservative coaching has led to safe players being selected. Other, less safe players that have world class attributes and points of difference aren't chosen because of their perceived weaknesses meaning they don't develop. I think you become a world class player by consistently playing international rugby and having the capacity and mental attributes to improve. Our coaches are always on the back foot looking for the win so go for safe players.

 

[Wendigo7]

Mike Ford supposedly is in pole position.

Id personally go for Woodward or Baxter. If it's Woodward, get the guys he wants. He's a ****** but he put a plan in place, England attacked and it worked.?

 

[Hulkster]

What we've lacked in true world class we've made up for in the quantity of players at an acceptable standard.
I believe that conservative coaching has led to safe players being selected. Other, less safe players that have world class attributes and points of difference aren't chosen because of their perceived weaknesses meaning they don't develop. I think you become a world class player by consistently playing international rugby and having the capacity and mental attributes to improve. Our coaches are always on the back foot looking for the win so go for safe players.

This is spot on.

When it comes to a flair or attacking players, the focus and overriding concern seems to be about their weaknesses or what they can't do, rather than their strengths and what the can do.

The same does not seem to be true of 'solid' players, where there seems little concern about their limited attacking contribution.

 

[Hulkster]

Mike Ford supposedly is in pole position.

Id personally go for Woodward or Baxter. If it's Woodward, get the guys he wants. He's a ****** but he put a plan in place, England attacked and it worked.?

I like Ford but I'd rather we just avoid thr situation whereby one of the leading player's dad is on the coaching staff.

Let's just not let the situation of nepotism or even reverse nepotism (real or imagined) become an issue.

I'd go for Baxter.