England Post-WC discussion

[ratsapprentice]

Out of Gustard and Samderson, who would people prefer as an assistant?

 

[TheSaffycen]

For England Sanderson because he has a very good understanding of the ruck. England will have a better technique and idea at ruck time.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I prefer Gustard, for defence.

 

[ratsapprentice]

I prefer Gustard, for defence.

How much of their defence is based on technically sound forward play though?
I find it very difficult to apportion praise between them - it's obviously symbiotic, but to what extent?

My issue with Gustard is that, like Gatland - his system dictates the entire gameplan and is restrictive in terms of the type of player you select.
Whereas Sanderson's role can be plugged in to various styles - it's more technical than stylistic.

 

[Aristodemus]

Has there been any indication that Jones wants to bring in a new team yet? All I saw/read is that he will be speaking to the current team to see what they can offer, and that he will assess after that who he wants.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I don't think Jones officially starts until December 1st, so I wouldn't expect him to say anything about staff until after then.

 

[ratsapprentice]

I think the chances of all of the current staff staying are close to zero, and likely that all of them will go.

 

[Aristodemus]

I hope so. I didn't like Ritchie insinuating that he will be bringing in an assistant to take over after his reign though. I think his backroom team could be more important than it initially seems.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Yeah, that is a little worrying.
If Jones leaves in 4 years then that's about the time I'd expect one of the prem coaches that have been touted (Baxter, Mallinder, Ford) to want to make the step up.

They're not going to leave their current roles for an assistant's job, and I doubt the RFU is wanting their coaches to be part time (especially with the crossover between internationals/international training and their club commitments).

 

[Peat]

Yeah, that is a little worrying.
If Jones leaves in 4 years then that's about the time I'd expect one of the prem coaches that have been touted (Baxter, Mallinder, Ford) to want to make the step up.

They're not going to leave their current roles for an assistant's job, and I doubt the RFU is wanting their coaches to be part time (especially with the crossover between internationals/international training and their club commitments).

In fairness, if they're not willing to leave their current roles to get international experience, then they shouldn't be surprised if someone with international experience might end up beating them out. I've got no problem if it ends up that way...

... the issue is pre-determining it's going to happen that way.

 

[nickdnz]

In fairness, if they're not willing to leave their current roles to get international experience, then they shouldn't be surprised if someone with international experience might end up beating them out. I've got no problem if it ends up that way...

... the issue is pre-determining it's going to happen that way.

It also means those remaining have 4 years to earn some trophies. The fact is all the current people talked about haven't demonstrated a consistent ability to make a champion team. If none of them do so in the four years remaining - it may just go to the assistants by default.

 

[Peat]

It also means those remaining have 4 years to earn some trophies. The fact is all the current people talked about haven't demonstrated a consistent ability to make a champion team. If none of them do so in the four years remaining - it may just go to the assistants by default.

There is that.

Ford's in the right place. He's done the international thing, he now needs to prove himself as a head coach and win shizzle.

Mallinder I think is the opposite. He's done a lot of head coaching work and, honestly, what new is he going to learn there? Spend time focusing on coaching a specialist discipline and getting the utmost out of himself and special players would improve him and improve his chances in the way nothing but utter domination with Northampton would.

Baxter is the interesting one and he could do well for himself both ways. If he took on the England forwards role though, he'd be front of the queue in 2019 assuming nothing went wrong though. I can understand Baxter being Exeter through and through, but he's got one hell of a rugby brain and I'd love to see him maximise that, and that probably means leaving Exeter before too long.

 

[Lé Ddanno]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ru...-Hartley-must-be-the-new-England-captain.html

McGeechan trying to sabotage us again.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ru...-Hartley-must-be-the-new-England-captain.html

McGeechan trying to sabotage us again.

The same Dylan Hartley that might not be starting for his club after the way Haywood as been playing.

England captain he is defiantly not

 

[nickdnz]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ru...-Hartley-must-be-the-new-England-captain.html

McGeechan trying to sabotage us again.

Your not kidding. Who else would you want to set an example as captain except the player with the worst discipline record in rugby?

 

[Lé Ddanno]

This week: Mcgeechan calls for Clark and Delon in the squad and the appointment of Duncan McCrae as a special discipline consultant.

 

[McTallshort]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ru...-Hartley-must-be-the-new-England-captain.html

McGeechan trying to sabotage us again.

Once a saint always a saint eh? To be fair to Hartley the last 2 bans were very harsh and his sending off against tigers the other year was a total over reaction from Wayne Barnes as he didn't actually swear at him. Also thinking back Martin Johnson had a reputation as being undisciplined but managed to captain England ok so I wouldn't be totally against the idea.

 

[Lé Ddanno]

Once a saint always a saint eh? To be fair to Hartley the last 2 bans were very harsh and his sending off against tigers the other year was a total over reaction from Wayne Barnes as he didn't actually swear at him. Also thinking back Martin Johnson had a reputation as being undisciplined but managed to captain England ok so I wouldn't be totally against the idea.

It's as much the timing and magnitude of his bans and indiscretions that concern me. Lions, Cup final and the WC. It borders on self-harm.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

This week: Mcgeechan calls for Clark and Delon in the squad and the appointment of Duncan McCrae as a special discipline consultant.

Mcgeechan has lost to much rep over the last 4 or so years.

 

[nickdnz]

Once a saint always a saint eh? To be fair to Hartley the last 2 bans were very harsh and his sending off against tigers the other year was a total over reaction from Wayne Barnes as he didn't actually swear at him. Also thinking back Martin Johnson had a reputation as being undisciplined but managed to captain England ok so I wouldn't be totally against the idea.

Martin Johnson had a reputation as an enforcer. Hartley is just a thug. He seems to be the most excused player in England.

What's more - I don't really rate him especially high as a hooker. Being reasonably solid in the set-piece seems to be his biggest claim to fame - over Youngs who seems to have difficulties throwing in an England lineup (not that Hartley always excells at this either). Bringing in a different forwards coach who will work on the setpieces (which Jones and staff did extremely well with Japan) - and that point of difference for Hartley may be non-existent.