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England Post-WC discussion

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Robson was getting no time at all for Glaws, added to the fact they were (and are) in the challenge cup. Laidlaw is their first choice kicker, meaning in every close and meaningful game, Laidlaw was on the pitch for 70+ minutes. Robson was getting to come on to either change the game, or when it was already won. I suspect Glaws signed Laidlaw as a 10 too, so having been stuck behind Cowan for no reason, he was about to become 1st choice with an experienced 9 at 10, would have really helped. Then they made a late signing of Hook, who demanded the 10 shirt, Laidlaw went to 9, and Robson found himself on the bench behind the first choice placekicker.

He said himself he isn't afraid to fight for a starting spot, but felt that Laidlaws kicking made it a step too far. His options were Chiefs and Wasps, Chiefs have Chudley in fine form and Dave Lewis who was pulling up trees a season or two ago, so not too much easier to overcome either. Simpson is also more likely to be off to the 6N than either of those two. And Laidlaw is only just 30, let's not start pretending his career is over in the next season.

He's now getting at least 20 mins off the bench, and has had 1 start, not terrible for a move to a new club, and unless he was signing as first choice, better than he'd have got elsewhere. Any club that would have given him first choice would have been challenge cup/bottom half of the table, even potentially relegation fodder (Irish, Falcons, Wuss).

As for Loz to Sarries, I've no idea if they'll rotate him with Farrell that much. Hodgson seemed to start when Farrell was away or broken, more than anything else, and whilst Loz has potential Hodgson was bloody good. No guarantees by a long way (unless daddy is in charge for the 6N), that Farrell will be in an England shirt soon anyway.

I don't think we should be forcing teams to play academy players, that will lower the quality of the AP (unless you can force Robson to move to Irish etc), I do think we should have a minimum salary to foreigners, to ensure that foreigners are of a quality that improves the AP, and therefore every EQP playing in it, rather than journeymen (Gopperth, Downey etc etc).
 
Laidlaw was our only realistic kicking option a year ago, but I feel we can cope without Laidlaw's goal kicking now. Twelvetrees and Hook are both fairly decent options. (And in fact, we use Hook and Twelvetrees for the long kicks.) We don't need Laidlaw on the field like we used to. Which makes Robson's decision to move feel a tad premature now. I think he would have gotten just as much time here as he would have at Wasps. He's second choice at both teams, but at least at Gloucester he becomes first-choice in international periods.

But I still think the best decision would have been to go to a club where he had a better chance of being first choice. Exeter would have been a good move I think.
 
Laidlaw was our only realistic kicking option a year ago, but I feel we can cope without Laidlaw's goal kicking now. Twelvetrees and Hook are both fairly decent options. (And in fact, we use Hook and Twelvetrees for the long kicks.) We don't need Laidlaw on the field like we used to. Which makes Robson's decision to move feel a tad premature now. I think he would have gotten just as much time here as he would have at Wasps. He's second choice at both teams, but at least at Gloucester he becomes first-choice in international periods.

But I still think the best decision would have been to go to a club where he had a better chance of being first choice. Exeter would have been a good move I think.

Good to hear you do need Laidlaw on the field......he is a jerk!!!
 
How many good squads could England do?

1) Mullan, 2) George, 3) Cole
4) Attwood, 5) Launchbury
6) Ewers, 7) Kvesic, 8) Morgan
9) Youngs, 10) Ford
12) Slade, 13) Joesph
11) May, 14) Watson, 15) Brown

16) Youngs, 17) Vunipola, 18) Wilson
19) Slater, 20) Vunipola
21) Care, 22) Cips, 23) Nowell

1) Marler, 2) Cowan-Dickie, 3) Brookes
4) Kitchener, 5) Lawes
6) Itojie, 7) Fraser , 8) Hughes
9) Simpson, 10) Farrell,
12) Eastmond, 13) Manu
11) Yarde, 14) Roko, 15) Foden

16) Hartley, 17) Auterac, 18) Thomas
19) Kruis, 20) Beaumont
21) Robson, 22) Myler (?), 23) Tait

1) 2) Taylor, 3) Cooper-Wooley
4) Garvey, 5) Symons
6) Clifford, 7) O'Connor, 8) Evans
9) Harrison, 10) Burns
12) Jones, 13) Daly
11) Wade, 14) Thompstone, 15) Tait

16) Heywood, 17) Waller,18) Sinkler
19) Matthews, 20) Williams/Robshaw
21) Cook, 22) Burns, 23) Stephenson

Struggling in some places but TBH shows so much potential depth.
 
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Potential is something England haven't really struggled with, expoliting it is.
 
Laidlaw was our only realistic kicking option a year ago, but I feel we can cope without Laidlaw's goal kicking now. Twelvetrees and Hook are both fairly decent options. (And in fact, we use Hook and Twelvetrees for the long kicks.) We don't need Laidlaw on the field like we used to. Which makes Robson's decision to move feel a tad premature now. I think he would have gotten just as much time here as he would have at Wasps. He's second choice at both teams, but at least at Gloucester he becomes first-choice in international periods.

But I still think the best decision would have been to go to a club where he had a better chance of being first choice. Exeter would have been a good move I think.

Laidlaw is a 90%+ kicker, he'll still be solid first choice and still unlikely to leave the field too early. There's also no guarantee that Simpson won't be involved during internationals either... Robson has got at least 20 minutes each game so far, and a start against a meaningful opponent, I think he's doing fine so far.

EDIT - I'd also expect him to get a few starts after this week.
 
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Watching Ulster V Sarries and Farrell just missed the same kick that Robshaw turned down to "take the draw" against Wales.
 
Watching Ulster V Sarries and Farrell just missed the same kick that Robshaw turned down to "take the draw" against Wales.

The wind's blowing straight down the pitch - not at all comparable.

- - - Updated - - -

Watching Ulster V Sarries and Farrell just missed the same kick that Robshaw turned down to "take the draw" against Wales.

The wind's blowing straight down the pitch - not at all comparable.
 
Not been very impressed with itoje, looks very much like a young player still learning his trade today.

Kruis looks good.

Mako scrummaging is terrible

Billy v looks so average.
 
Not been that impressed with Itoje this season either - even when Sarries were absolutely ruining Sale he didn't look that great.
Ewers has looked far better, and isn't even playing as well as he can IMO.
 
Not been very impressed with itoje, looks very much like a young player still learning his trade today.

Kruis looks good.

Mako scrummaging is terrible

Billy v looks so average.
:lol:
Sarries unbeaten this season having just trounced Toulouse and Ulster, and apparently half their pack is terrible (lets leave the backline out of this). OK.
It's plainly obvious to me that Sarries are battering teams thanks to the work of Vunipolas, Kruis, George and Itoje- did you not see the physicality these guys were dishing out in d or at ruck time? Kruis, Itoje and Billy were absolute class tonight. Some of you guys are so one eyed.
 
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Not been that impressed with Itoje this season either - even when Sarries were absolutely ruining Sale he didn't look that great.
Ewers has looked far better, and isn't even playing as well as he can IMO.

Sort of this, Trouble is he has been so hyped and even talked about being England Captain so was never going to hit that height ATM.
 
:lol:
Sarries unbeaten this season having just trounced Toulouse and Ulster, and apparently half their pack is terrible (lets leave the backline out of this). OK.
It's plainly obvious to me that Sarries are battering teams thanks to the work of Vunipolas, Kruis, George and Itoje- did you not see the physicality these guys were dishing out in d or at ruck time? Kruis, Itoje and Billy were absolute class tonight. Some of you guys are so one eyed.

Have you even read what I'm posted you idiot!

Where do I say half the pack is terrible?

Sarries best players in the pack tonight have been burger, kruis and mako (apart from his scrummaging).

No one or one eyed, just honest about players.
 
I think Itoje has been pretty good so far tbh . Hes had a MOTM in one game (can't remember which . Maybe the Saints game) He's definitely got more but has looked like an important cog in the Sarries machine . It's a testament to the lad that people expect so much more of him . If he was just another 20 year old player nobody would bat an eyelid

Also I didn't think Makos scrummaging was that bad . Healy pointed out on a few occasions the Ulster TH was over extending and slipping . It's the referees guessing if you ask me
 
Have you even read what I'm posted you idiot!

Where do I say half the pack is terrible?

Sarries best players in the pack tonight have been burger, kruis and mako (apart from his scrummaging).

No one or one eyed, just honest about players.
'not impressed with Itoje', 'Mako scrummages terribly', 'Billy is average'. I contest all these assertions.
 
Strettle just scored a try on Sky Sports - how long until the mouth breathers start clammering for him to be in the England squad?
 
Strettle just scored a try on Sky Sports - how long until the mouth breathers start clammering for him to be in the England squad?

Did he score it? I don't think he got it down first time (though it's tough to tell, the fact he went for it again suggests not), then he stands up out of a completed tackled, without releasing the ball, which is illegal. Unless there's some new rule in the try area.
 
Does anyone know what the deal with Sam Underhill is?

For those that don't know - he's the England U18 captain who is now playing for the Ospreys whilst he's doing an Economics degree in Cardiff.

He got a MOM award vs Munster in the PRO12 a couple of months ago - made 103 metres and 15 tackles... pretty impressive for a 19 year old on debut.
I think he's due to complete his studies when he's 22.
 
Does anyone know what the deal with Sam Underhill is?

For those that don't know - he's the England U18 captain who is now playing for the Ospreys whilst he's doing an Economics degree in Cardiff.

He got a MOM award vs Munster in the PRO12 a couple of months ago - made 103 metres and 15 tackles... pretty impressive for a 19 year old on debut.
I think he's due to complete his studies when he's 22.

GAts will be knocking on his door
 
Does anyone know what the deal with Sam Underhill is?

For those that don't know - he's the England U18 captain who is now playing for the Ospreys whilst he's doing an Economics degree in Cardiff.

He got a MOM award vs Munster in the PRO12 a couple of months ago - made 103 metres and 15 tackles... pretty impressive for a 19 year old on debut.
I think he's due to complete his studies when he's 22.

I have no idea why he's done it or what his future intentions are but, likewise, I'd like to know.

Openside, isn't he? Not sure I'd blame any openside who looked at the Prem and decided to go away to make his bones...
 
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