England Post-WC discussion

[TheSaffycen]

Haskell.

Ask yourself how good a player would be at playing touch rugby - if it's "eh... not so good", then I don't think they should really be in contention for senior international roles.
Particularly if you have intentions on being an efficient, clinical attacking side.

You can't get frustrated at players making stupid mistakes, when you pick players who have always made stupid mistakes.

Have you seen Wasps play ?

 

[Raggs]

He's clearly not watched Hask recently. Running fantastic lines in attack, developed his offloading game, putting in big hits in defence. Still, people like to get a locked image in their head and not let go. Similar thing over BV and his supposed lack of fitness.

 

[TheSaffycen]

Haskell has looked brilliant playing along side Hughes and Smith. I think if you change that to Kvesic and Vunipola/Morgan/Hughes it would still work. He made 20 tackles and made 1 turnover on his own line, he has been brilliant this season.

 

[Raggs]

I think much like Robshaw, he was too much of a 6.5 to play 7. He was always a player capable of playing across the backrow, but it took him time to adapt Give him a role, tell him what it is, and let him get on with it. Don't move him around the backline expecting different things from him from week to week.

 

[ZeroTwo]

I think much like Robshaw, he was too much of a 6.5 to play 7. He was always a player capable of playing across the backrow, but it took him time to adapt Give him a role, tell him what it is, and let him get on with it. Don't move him around the backline expecting different things from him from week to week.

Agree with this a lot. Thinking back he's been thrown around more than Ronda Rousey recently. I'd love him to run consistently at a single position for England.

 

[Peat]

Bizarre selection criteria for a blindside flanker.
Considering he's played international 7s and been a starter for a Super Rugby side I'd imagine he'd do OK.

Only if you don't care about playing good attacking rugby. It's pretty difficult to do if your back row aren't decent linkmen.

Personally, I think Haskell's worked hard on his hands and I've seen him look to put people into space as much as any of the England back rows. The problem for me is his ability to make good decisions, both on this subject and others. We could do worse than him, and he'll look better in a dominant team, but if Eddie Jones can actually change his basic nature that's a small miracle.

He's like the Billy Twelvetrees of back row play.

 

[j'nuh]

Haven't we been in this position many times before though? Haskell looks good for club, yet cannot seem to translate it onto the international stage. Also, as far as not having had a chance to play in a balanced England backrow, Robshaw and Wood can make exactly the same claim; that maybe they would also show another level for England if the they were in a backrow with the right balance. I wouldn't be unhappy with seeing any of them on some kind of trial basis alongside Kvesic/Fraser, to give them a chance to prove that they can provide the right balance, but I hope that Ewers gets the first crack. Our pack lacks carriers and Ewers is the best carrying non-8 in England, as well as being one of the form flankers for the last two years.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Haskell has (as said before) looked brilliant at club level only to go missing at international level time and time again.

I would have him in the squad though, unlike wood and robshaw, Haskell genuinely overs 6,7 & 8 to good effect.

If Eddie selects a squad of form players robshaw and wood would probably miss out.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Only if you don't care about playing good attacking rugby. It's pretty difficult to do if your back row aren't decent linkmen.

Personally, I think Haskell's worked hard on his hands and I've seen him look to put people into space as much as any of the England back rows. The problem for me is his ability to make good decisions, both on this subject and others. We could do worse than him, and he'll look better in a dominant team, but if Eddie Jones can actually change his basic nature that's a small miracle.

He's like the Billy Twelvetrees of back row play.

Precisely.

 

[Raggs]

And how often has Haskell been playing in the position his club was playing him?

Wasps played him at 7, England played him at 8 and 6 (where he didn't look too shabby, and was the pick of the forwards against France in the warmups, which would have been after a lot of practice as a 6 in the training camp).

I don't think he adapts well, basically if he can't play the same role at international as he's doing at his club, don't use him, but if you can use the same attributes, he's a very good choice for at least a transition period.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Only if you don't care about playing good attacking rugby. It's pretty difficult to do if your back row aren't decent linkmen.

Personally, I think Haskell's worked hard on his hands and I've seen him look to put people into space as much as any of the England back rows. The problem for me is his ability to make good decisions, both on this subject and others. We could do worse than him, and he'll look better in a dominant team, but if Eddie Jones can actually change his basic nature that's a small miracle.

He's like the Billy Twelvetrees of back row play.

We're not awash with great blindside flankers, and when you apply the filter of 'Good footballer' to this group it becomes even narrower. I'd certainly number Haskell as one of this group. His linkmanship shouldn't be in question at all really; I don't even have a problem with his general decision making. Crashing into posts aside, the main problem I have with him is simply discipline under high levels of pressure - which is a form of decision making certainly. but doesn't reflect upon his overall ability as a footballer.

but anyway, I think an important observation here is that Haskell has always looked better playing alongside a proper openside. Seeing as we're so thin on options, I wouldn't be hugely adverse to giving some gametime alongside Kvesic.

Also, it was quite funny how gash Armitage was on Sunday. I hope Eddie Jones was watching

 

[Geordie]

Loads of discussions elsewhere about Leicester new kiwi 7 having a an English grandparent and being eligible.

I would be genuinely f**king pi$$ed off if he was selected ahead of the likes of Clifford, Kvesic and Fraser etc. Equally like I will be when Nathan Hughes is selected (which is an absolute banker come June 2016)

I understand winning is everything now...but lets do it without drafting in more bloomin foreigners.....

Whats the point having all the clubs working hard producing young talent and Junior WC winning teams.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh and regarding Haskell...its not his ability. At Club level he is consistently top class.

Its his consistency at international level...he says to just blow hot and cold.

I do wonder if its how he was being asked to play...like I wonder about a few players like Dave Attwood etc. He had a well known spat about being asked to play a game he wasn't used to.

 

[Mattybuck]

I like Haskell, he has failed to fulfil the potential he showed as a youngun but I feel he could be a late bloomer.

The problem with the previous management was that the same faces got extended runs in the team irrespective of their performances, while others got games here and there often out of position.

I think Hask would make a strong interim captain while other younger players develop.

However you have to doubt his ability to keep his place in the squad looking at some of the younger players...

So basically I can't make my mind up!

 

[Mumbles119]

Loads of discussions elsewhere about Leicester new kiwi 7 having a an English grandparent and being eligible.

I would be genuinely f**king pi$$ed off if he was selected ahead of the likes of Clifford, Kvesic and Fraser etc. Equally like I will be when Nathan Hughes is selected (which is an absolute banker come June 2016)

I understand winning is everything now...but lets do it without drafting in more bloomin foreigners.....

Whats the point having all the clubs working hard producing young talent and Junior WC winning teams.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh and regarding Haskell...its not his ability. At Club level he is consistently top class.

Its his consistency at international level...he says to just blow hot and cold.

I do wonder if its how he was being asked to play...like I wonder about a few players like Dave Attwood etc. He had a well known spat about being asked to play a game he wasn't used to.

Hopefully a clearer gameplan and requirements demanded from players, will enable potential England players to know if their strengths suit what is expected and know they will get picked because of this, or give them a focus of development at their club level that will be rewarded.

Re: the Leicester 7, O'Connor: I would not be adverse to him playing to England, if compared objectively against others like Kvesic or Fraser. Or if he is involved and that helps other potential 7s step up and develop, then all the better.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Meh O'Connor is still a season off getting picked prob anyway.

But let's face it Fraser has a massive question mark his ability to stay fit.

Mind you I have stop caring about eligibility getting fed up of the remarks about using a foreign coach or a foreign born player as if England are the only team doing it.

Let's face it to be serious about Winning the World Cup we need to try and get 3 World class to international level in each position.

 

[Maverick1987]

Meh O'Connor is still a season off getting picked prob anyway.

But let's face it Fraser has a massive question mark his ability to stay fit.

Mind you I have stop caring about eligibility getting fed up of the remarks about using a foreign coach or a foreign born player as if England are the only team doing it.

Let's face it to be serious about Winning the World Cup we need to try and get 3 World class to international level in each position.

This ....

Imagine the difference in a back row of
Ewers, O'Connor and Hughes compared to Wood, Robshaw and Morgan we would have probably made the KO stages of the World Cup with the first one ....

 

[Geordie]

So you would be happy to see that back row running out representing England?

Ewers - Zimbabwean (Fair enough he's been here about 6+ years)
O'Connor - Kiwi (been here a few weeks)
Hughes - Fijian been here 2.5 years.

We would be a laughing stock.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

So you would be happy to see that back row running out representing England?

Ewers - Zimbabwean (Fair enough he's been here about 6+ years)
O'Connor - Kiwi (been here a few weeks)
Hughes - Fijian been here 2.5 years.

We would be a laughing stock.

To be fair ewers parents are English.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

To be fair ewers parents are English.

TBH Zimbabwe isn't the nicest place to live esp if your from white Farming stock.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

So you would be happy to see that back row running out representing England?

Ewers - Zimbabwean (Fair enough he's been here about 6+ years)
O'Connor - Kiwi (been here a few weeks)
Hughes - Fijian been here 2.5 years.

We would be a laughing stock.

I'd much rather we didn't play guys who've only been here a few years but the most important thing is to select our best side. I want a winning back row.
If O'Connor can walk into the England set-up then the biggest problem is what that says about the other players available.