England Post-WC discussion

[ratsapprentice]

Getting Eddie Jones in would be good for Kvesic, given the Jones-Fisher link.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

c Will you go away withn you're Sale pushing agenda

Anyway

1 try in 13 games vs 12 tries in 19.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Lol Olyy why do you want England to be a sale mark 2?

Yeah currently they are similar to sale in terms of end results I guess but still.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

We deserve at least one player in the squad and I will champion every single one until it happens - which it never will because, for the RFU, rugby doesn't exist north of Leicester.


Everyone in the North is sick of England/the RFU now anyway - tickets for tomorrow's game being sold on for less than a tenner now :lol:

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

So you didn't really read my post did you?

The reasoning behind the two backlines you quoted is that you need physicality in there, but you might also want to have more of a playmaking centre partnership.

Yes I did, I just didn't get why that meant the exclusion of May. On the physicality front, he may not be huge, but he's not small and, offensively at least, I actually think his running is very aggressive.

Not to worry, neither of us will be right.

 

[ratsapprentice]

There is nothing for me to be "right" about... I was making a suggestion of what a backline that had physicality outside of the centres would look like.

If you think May is one of the two most physical wingers in realistic contention for a spot then fine... I think that's a pretty mental opinion to hold, however.

 

[j'nuh]

We deserve at least one player in the squad and I will champion every single one until it happens - which it never will because, for the RFU, rugby doesn't exist north of Leicester.


Everyone in the North is sick of England/the RFU now anyway - tickets for tomorrow's game being sold on for less than a tenner now :lol:

 

[Peat]

That right there is the smug look of a RL plant who knows that not only has he been successful in his sabotage mission beyond his wildest dreams, but that his son will continue to spread his legacy of evil.

 

[Mattybuck]

That's a really depressing picture. I just can't take 4 more years of mediocrity.

 

[Patchey]

That right there is the smug look of a RL plant who knows that not only has he been successful in his sabotage mission beyond his wildest dreams, but that his son will continue to spread his legacy of evil.

What a vision of horror that is!

 

[Every Time Ref]

God they look smug. That photo makes me so irrationally angry.

No, bugger that. It's completely rational and I stand by it.

On England's future - I think wingers is a tricky one. Watson and May were undoubtedly two of few big positives from the tournament, but are they too similar? I do like one big winger in any team, paired with a flyer. I would make Watson and May fight it out, whoever isn't starting takes the 23 shirt and comes on at some point (although no pre-meditated substitutions, please...) - if May starts, Watson comes on for Brown, if Watson starts then he moves to 15 and May comes on his wing.

As for the power winger, unsurprisingly I'm a massive Roko fan - I think he's the complete package for that type of winger, strong, fast, great step, tryscorer, great carrier in midfield, decoy runner, good in defence and better in the air than any England player except Brown. If not Roko, I'd accept Banahan.

The midfield? JJ 100%, combined with God knows. I'd like a power centre but there's no obvious choice, maybe Tuilagi learns to pass more (which I don't think he's incapable of), maybe Burrell sorts his **** out, maybe one of the up-and-comers sticks his hand up early season.

Halfbacks I'd stick with Youngs, I've not historically been a fan but he has looked good in recent matches and I'm pleased to see his kicking starting to develop. Ford and Farrell can fight it out, competition can only be good. If forced to choose now I'd go with Ford, but he has things to sort out.

Back row my colours are nailed to the Kvesic mast. If you thought my backs assessment leaned towards Bath bias, give me credit for that! Morgan and Billy can fight it out (Billy at the moment for me), Robshaw should stay in the team at 6. Not sure if he should stay on as captain, not really sure who the alternatives are.

Tight 5, Cole needs a rest and Marler needs to go (Mako in). It seems the right time for George at hooker, although I think Youngs took some unnecessary flack especially for his throwing. Launchbury has to stay fit, Lawes looked really poor but maybe that was injury? Atwood adds grunt but his form is shaky and he doesn't strike me as a top class international to be honest. Maybe give Kruis a proper shot?

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

God they look smug. That photo makes me so irrationally angry.

No, bugger that. It's completely rational and I stand by it.

On England's future - I think wingers is a tricky one. Watson and May were undoubtedly two of few big positives from the tournament, but are they too similar? I do like one big winger in any team, paired with a flyer. I would make Watson and May fight it out, whoever isn't starting takes the 23 shirt and comes on at some point (although no pre-meditated substitutions, please...) - if May starts, Watson comes on for Brown, if Watson starts then he moves to 15 and May comes on?

Brown has been good but not great recently and given his age and concussion history I think it's time to say thanks and give the 15 shirt to Watson with May and Roko on the wings. Personally I love the idea of 2 fliers in the back 3. I think most defence coaches would rather plan for big lumps than gas merchants.

 

[Every Time Ref]

Brown has been good but not great recently and given his age and concussion history I think it's time to say thanks and give the 15 shirt to Watson with May and Roko on the wings. Personally I love the idea of 2 fliers in the back 3. I think most defence coaches would rather plan for big lumps than gas merchants.

You might be right about Brown medium-/long-term but there's going to be a lot of panicky knee jerk calls for established players to be dropped for the next big thing and I think many, if not most should be resisted. Brown is still a key player for England, and like someone said earlier with reference to Sam Cane (it may have in been another thread), you don't make players international class by throwing them in at the deep end, you phase them in gradually. I love Watson, but replacing Brown with him would mean a drop in quality in the immediate future - it has to be done eventually for long-term gain but should be handled carefully.

As for wingers, my point is not to choose power wingers over flyers, but to choose both - 2 weapons, more variety, ability to adapt game plans and make defences cover more threats. I think opposition coaches will find it harder to plan for both a big winger and a flyer than for 2 the same.

Anyway, regardless of playing style, Roko is the best English winger on Prem form.

 

[ratsapprentice]

I love Watson, but replacing Brown with him would mean a drop in quality in the immediate future - it has to be done eventually for long-term gain but should be handled carefully.

It does actually need to happen though.

You said earlier that you were against pre-planned subs, but those are required if you are trying to give young players experience.

 

[Every Time Ref]

It does actually need to happen though.

You said earlier that you were against pre-planned subs, but those are required if you are trying to give young players experience.

OK yes, I guess my wording was sloppy - there have to be pre-planned subs but there also needs to be flexibility in overruling the plans if circumstances necessitate it. I'd think of it as an expected plan, which can be changed as necessary depending what happens on the pitch - like any aspect of the game plan.

 

[Mattybuck]

Glad others feel the same about Roko. Had the full package and an attitude that means he will never be guilty of not trying.

Was treated harshly by SL which seemed to dent his confidence.

I'd love to see him get a run out.

The best step I've ever seen... Doesn't get a hand on him!

http://youtu.be/ALW8gIiwLnI

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Roko's form dropped off MASSIVELY after his injury with England, though.
On form he's brilliant, but I don't think he was the best winger in England last season, because he spent about half of it playing pretty poorly.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Roko's form dropped off MASSIVELY after his injury with England, though.
On form he's brilliant, but I don't think he was the best winger in England last season, because he spent about half of it playing pretty poorly.

This his form needs to be what it was pre NZ tour IMO.

 

[ratsapprentice]

His form picked up massively in the last few games too.

Selecting Strettle ahead of him was absurd.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Interesting that Wade hasn't been mentioned in too many of these discussions. Really can't make up my mind about him, and probably never will unless he gets an extended chance.