England Post-WC discussion

[Geordie]

Interesting hearing BOD commentating and he said he would start Daly, because he has more in his armoury than JJ. Thus he'd be more difficult to play against.

And every single report seems to suggest Farrell will start at 12. Outside ford at 10

I think we will see Daly at 13.

10 Ford
12 Farrell
13 Daly

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Matt Smith

 

[Geordie]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ru...e-seven-new-faces-in-first-England-squad.html

Telegraph is always absolutely spot on...they must have an insder informant.

Not sure what Kvesic has to do mind. Fraser and Clifford in as 7's

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Why pick Manu?

Let him play for Tigers and pick him for the summer tours of all goes well.


Kvesic needs to move IMO.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Do you know if this is the same knee that he had surgery on in the off season before last? I don't mean to be the prophet of doom, but in someone of his age, it doesn't bode well for the longevity of his career.

Not so much - have you seen a video of the incident?

It was a pretty nasty lateral hyperextension cause by Moriarty falling on it - wasn't during a step or running/pushing.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

JJ is a better defender than Daly as well, and international 13 is notoriously one of the most difficult to defend.
I'm a big Daly fan buy my biggest issue is sometimes his defence isn't up to scratch, and at international level this'll be exposed more - I'd rather ease him in than throw him in at the deep end, especially when we already have a world class 13.
Have him on the bench, he can come on for JJ or Brown, see how he goes, then start him vs Italy.

 

[Geordie]

Yeah bad choice picking Manu.

JJ and Daly are both there and quality. No need to rush Manu.

Interesting that Paul Hill is straight in the squad

 

[Peat]

Manu should absolutely 100% be in the EPS.

He probably shouldn't be involved in the 6N itself until about halfway through that, but he is a key part of the plan and should be in the squad from the beginning.

Also, note: Tuilagi, Hill, Joseph, Daly sounds like

12: Straight line power
13: Speedy stepper

As a plan down the line. Which I can live with. Although, Fazlet doesn't fit that.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Guess Fraser will prob start at 7 IMO.

Kvesic must be furious.

He should of gone to Tigers when he First left Wuss damn it.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Kvesic must be furious.

I know I am.

 

[Peat]

Are we getting into a Lancaster situation where he closes his eyes while watching the Premiership clubs and says "THERE ARE NO Sufficiently talented OPENSIDES IN ENGLAND"?

Efa.

If Jones joins Lancaster in saying that, we might have to review our current thoughts there.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Interesting that Paul Hill is straight in the squad

Very.
I'm all for looking to the future, but he's 20 - shouldn't he be in the u20s? Or in the Saxons and training with the seniors to get experience?
He's not going to be playing in the 6N for the seniors, so it'd be a bit of a wasted spot?

How's his scrummaging going? I know he's playing well everywhere else, which I'd expect with his reputation, but scrummaging should be numero uno for any potential international prop.

Efa.

If Jones joins Lancaster in saying that, we might have to review our current thoughts there.

Nah, we definitely know best.

It does give me some....concerns?
Maybe not the right word.
But why is it that all fans, and pundits, can identify players but not coaches?
Sean Fitzpatrick said several years ago that if Seymour was a Kiwi he'd at least have a few caps, yet the closest he got was a few Saxons benches.
Kvesic only got used when the squad was decimated by Lions and rest periods and looks to be left out again.


What are they seeing that we're not?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

TBF Fraser is a 7.

I reckon it is just crap Journalism.

Really cannot believe that Kvesic might not make it.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Manu should absolutely 100% be in the EPS.

He probably shouldn't be involved in the 6N itself until about halfway through that, but he is a key part of the plan and should be in the squad from the beginning.

Also, note: Tuilagi, Hill, Joseph, Daly sounds like

12: Straight line power
13: Speedy stepper

As a plan down the line. Which I can live with. Although, Fazlet doesn't fit that.

I'm all for 12 being pwoerful but I don't want a Roberts clone in England. 12's like that tend to look for contact rather than space and quite frequently ignore those outside them in favour of trying to smash whoever is in front of them. Tuilagi used to do that a lot, it was part of the reason we so rarely saw our back 3 perform when he was in an England shirt.

What are they seeing that we're not?

I'm inclined to think nothing, considering our breakdown competition was some of the worst of any Tier 1 and some Tier 2 nations...

 

[Tmartin995]

Then again Japan played with Broadhurst at 7 and he's not exactly what you'd describe an "out and out 7". They didn't particularly struggle to generate quick ball.

 

[Maverick1987]

Daily Mail also reporting no Matt Kvesic . Time to move to a big 4 team I think

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ru...Eddie-Jones-ditches-host-World-Cup-flops.html

Chris Foy was very accurate with his reports under the Lancaster regime

Although interestingly saying Devoto is in and not Hill as some others are saying

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Devoto over Hill makes no sense IMO.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Devoto over Hill makes no sense IMO.

Agreed.

Daily Mail also reporting no Matt Kvesic . Time to move to a big 4 team I think

It's just mind boggling.
Like when there's weird decisions everyone says "I CAN'T BELIEVE IT" but you can always see where the coach is coming from, but not to have Kvesic in at all?
He's been TMCOSFIEOTDS* for years now.


*the most consistent open side flanker in England other than Dave Seymour

 

[Wendigo7]

So the side is:

1. Vunipola
2. Hartley (c)
3. Cole
4. Kruis
5. Itoje
6. Robshaw
7. Fraser
8. Vunipola
9. Youngs
10. Ford
11. Watson
12. Farrell
13. Joseph
14. Ashton
15. Brown

Subs:
16. Mullan
17. George
18. Hill
19. Launchbury
20. Clifford
21. Care
22. Devoto
23. Daly

 

[Peat]

Very.
I'm all for looking to the future, but he's 20 - shouldn't he be in the u20s? Or in the Saxons and training with the seniors to get experience?
He's not going to be playing in the 6N for the seniors, so it'd be a bit of a wasted spot?

How's his scrummaging going? I know he's playing well everywhere else, which I'd expect with his reputation, but scrummaging should be numero uno for any potential international prop.

Too old for U20s - and if Jones goes for three TH props in the EPS, that's effectively what he'd be. Or maybe he thinks he's ready.

Nah, we definitely know best.

It does give me some....concerns?
Maybe not the right word.
But why is it that all fans, and pundits, can identify players but not coaches?
Sean Fitzpatrick said several years ago that if Seymour was a Kiwi he'd at least have a few caps, yet the closest he got was a few Saxons benches.
Kvesic only got used when the squad was decimated by Lions and rest periods and looks to be left out again.


What are they seeing that we're not?

Gods knows. Kvesic works, jackals, carries, tackles... not sure what we're missing here. Fraser, I can see weaknesses in Fraser's game. In fairness, those are the two 'English' 7s who might have a hope atm.