England Post-WC discussion

[TRF_Olyy]

Too old for U20s - and if Jones goes for three TH props in the EPS, that's effectively what he'd be. Or maybe he thinks he's ready

Fair enough.
As I said, I have reservations over such young props in such an intense environment, but international coaches know more than me, and we do have several injuries in that position. I won't be slamming Jones if Hill has 30+ caps by the next RWC and is ruining everyone in the scrums at 24.

 

[stus768]

Fraser will get injured first training session and Kvesic will get called up.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Fraser will get injured first training session and Kvesic will get called up.

*Tom Wood will get called up

"He's a very street wise operator and will add a lot of experience and dog to a very fresh pack. He's playing well at 7 for his club and we know he can come in and do a job there for England."

 

[stus768]

*Tom Wood will get called up

"He's a very street wise operator and will add a lot of experience and dog to a very fresh pack. He's playing well at 7 for his club and we know he can come in and do a job there for England."

Ballocks. U have depressed me even more.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Hartley pick makes no sense To me.

And why the pundits all suddenly think he should be captain now just becuase a "Leak" said EJ might be looking at him for a captain option.

Was not long ago he was being called an idiot I'll disciplined so and so by those exact same pundits.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Hartley pick makes no sense To me.

And why the pundits all suddenly think he should be captain now just becuase a "Leak" said EJ might be looking at him for a captain option.

Was not long ago he was being called an idiot I'll disciplined so and so by those exact same pundits.

Ennit,
Not even taking in to consideration how little game time he's had this season (Six games, 300 minutes)

 

[stus768]

Eddie Jones stating that if players don't get in it's because they haven't done enough doesn't really run true with Kvesic and his omission looks very harsh on that basis.

 

[The Jones Boy]

Results in the impending 6 Nations comp will be key.
If EJ gets the results then all this speculation is morning mist.
If he doesn't get the results then it's gonna be a Fog of the Stephen King variety.
However, portents et al aside, I'm picking the England team will be fizzing at the bung to perform well for EJ.
If they don't win it they will be close.

 

[Tony Manx]

Reading the last few posts, I thought that I had missed the announcement from Jones..........

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/35297803

........apparently not!!

 

[ncurd]

Giving this all a pinch of salt I believe press speculation only to be slightly above our speculation. They made a complete horlicks of the assistant coach search which suggests to me they don't quite have the same access as before...yet.

The fact they are not clear on Ashton or Roko seams to suggest this in the past they use to be pretty clear who was in and who was out.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Couple of comments

Firstly if Eddie doesn't rate Kvesic then he must have some weakness we are not seeing that coaches look at and we don't. Not sure what it is as he looks a very rounded player to me but to be ignored by two coaches is strange.

Secondly Eddie talked about Hartley as captain when he wasn't injured and was playing every week. A lot has changed since then.

Thirdly Paul Hill is ready. Best third choice tight head to be in the England squad.

Fourthly if Eddie wants a ball player at 12 then Farrell/ slade and Devoto should be in and Manu should be left out. He isn't a 12 and isn't in the same mound. Let him find some form at 13 and the. See if he's better than JJ or Daly. Manu needs to work on some basic skills to get into the England team.

Fifthly I hope Ashton is no way near the squad, every other country seems to use young wingers most of the time, so should we.

 

[McTallshort]

I hope you lot are wrong on this and these rumours are ********:Hartley Captain, Ashton back in the EPS, Wood possibly at 7.....so this Eddie Jones bloke has really shown some fresh thinking

 

[tsof]

Giving this all a pinch of salt I believe press speculation only to be slightly above our speculation. They made a complete horlicks of the assistant coach search which suggests to me they don't quite have the same access as before...yet.

I think when every paper is saying exactly the same thing, you can expect them to have been briefed beforehand or (more likely) have received the squad under embargo. Either way, looks like this is the squad. Surprised to see no Kvesic and Devoto in (given form) but good to see faith being put in the youngsters. Good enough, old enough and all that...

Props: Joe Marler, Mako Vunipola, Paul Hill, Dan Cole, Matt Mullan
Hookers: Dylan Hartley, Jamie George, Tom Youngs
Second Rows: George Kruis, Joe Launchbury, Courtney Lawes, Maro Itoje
Back rows: James Haskell, Chris Robshaw, Billy Vunipola Will Fraser, Jack Clifford, Josh Beaumont
Scrum halves: Danny Care, Joe Simpson, Ben Youngs
Fly halves: Owen Farrell, George Ford
Centres: Elliot Daly, Jonathan Joseph, Manu Tuilagi, Ollie Devoto
Back three: Mike Brown, Alex Goode, Chris Ashton, Jack Nowell, Anthony Watson, Marland Yarde

 

[Peat]

RFU trying to organize a U23 tour of SA in the summer.

Great idea imagine the likes of
1) Auterac, Hepburn
2) Cowan-Dickie, Walker
3) Snickler, Balmain, Hill
4) Barrow, Ewels
5) Twomey, Stooke
6) Clifford, Nutley
7) Harrison,
8) Beaumont, Chrisholm
9) Robson, Spencer, Braley
10) Lozowski, Bell, Sweil
11) Addison, Kibirige
12) Devoto, Hill (Sloan if one or the other is involved with senior)
13) Stephenson, Thompkins
14) Earle,
15) Morris, Haley

Just as an example prob forgotten some players.

Would be pretty good experience.

To distract us from speculation while waiting for the facts...

I went back to this; a lot of the guys you named are too old (assuming a cut off point of born in 1993 or later) or going to be involved at the senior level. And I have to say once you've stripped out those guys, it's a lot less inspiring. Really struggled to think of back rows worth bothering with. Possibly a sign of too many established players slowing the march of the youngsters. This is the best squad I could come up with:


LHP: Alec Hepburn, Ellis Genge
HK: Luke Cowan-Dickie, Nathan Morris
THP: Scott Wilson, Kyle Sinckler
LK: Charlie Ewels, Elliott Stooke, Dom Barrow, Jonny Hill
BR: James Chisholm, Lewis Ludlam, Dave Sisi, Lewis Ludlow, Joel Conlon
SH: Callum Braley, Stuart Townsend
FH: Alex Lozowski, Billy Burns
CE: Harry Sloan, Tom Stephenson, Nick Tompkins, Sam James
W/FB: Henry Purdy, Nathan Earle, Tom Fowlie, Mike Haley, Simon Hammersley

I'll hold my hands up and say that back row is dogturd. I think you'd have to have a better working knowledge of the Championship than I do for the pack. Somebody needs to poach Underhill back double time.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

To distract us from speculation while waiting for the facts...

I went back to this; a lot of the guys you named are too old (assuming a cut off point of born in 1993 or later) or going to be involved at the senior level. And I have to say once you've stripped out those guys, it's a lot less inspiring. Really struggled to think of back rows worth bothering with. Possibly a sign of too many established players slowing the march of the youngsters. This is the best squad I could come up with:


LHP: Alec Hepburn, Ellis Genge
HK: Luke Cowan-Dickie, Nathan Morris
THP: Scott Wilson, Kyle Sinckler
LK: Charlie Ewels, Elliott Stooke, Dom Barrow, Jonny Hill
BR: James Chisholm, Lewis Ludlam, Dave Sisi, Lewis Ludlow, Joel Conlon
SH: Callum Braley, Stuart Townsend
FH: Alex Lozowski, Billy Burns
CE: Harry Sloan, Tom Stephenson, Nick Tompkins, Sam James
W/FB: Henry Purdy, Nathan Earle, Tom Fowlie, Mike Haley, Simon Hammersley

I'll hold my hands up and say that back row is dogturd. I think you'd have to have a better working knowledge of the Championship than I do for the pack. Somebody needs to poach Underhill back double time.

Guess it depends if it is 23 and Under time of the tour or not.

Hell of a centre group though ridiculously talented.

 

[Crapspray]

I'll hold my hands up and say that back row is dogturd. I think you'd have to have a better working knowledge of the Championship than I do for the pack. Somebody needs to poach Underhill back double time.

I think you're a little pessimistic about the back row. Ludlam started to really shine in the U20s finals last year, and Chisholm was World Junior Player of the Year (or whatever they call it now). Stick Underhill back in (and an U23s tour would be a good way of expressing interest in him) and that's decent enough.

6. Ludlam
7. Underhill
8. Chisholm

Would probably only be behind New Zealand in its age group. Lack of depth is an issue, but Conlon was decent in the U20s (and benched regularly). Plus Clifford is missing because he's in the seniors.

 

[Peat]

Guess it depends if it is 23 and Under time of the tour or not.

Hell of a centre group though ridiculously talented.

Does indeed - but since every other age grade in international rugby is on year of birth, that seemed more likely to me.

And yeah. And consider that doesn't include Slade, Hill or Devoto because I see them touring with the seniors, or Williams with the U20s, or a few guys who could have made cases for themselves to be in the squad... I honestly wouldn't be surprised if none of the centres I named there never made it.

I think you're a little pessimistic about the back row. Ludlam started to really shine in the U20s finals last year, and Chisholm was World Junior Player of the Year. Stick Underhill back in (and an U23s tour would be a good way of expressing interest in him) and that's decent enough.

6. Ludlam
7. Underhill
8. Chisholm

Would probably only be behind New Zealand in its age group. Lack of depth is an issue, but Conlon was decent in the U20s (and benched regularly). Plus Clifford is missing because he's in the seniors.

I can only presume Underhill is unselectable while in Wales until proven otherwise and obvs Clifford is missing.

And yeah, Ludlam and Chisholm look decent enough at JWC level, but when the stars of your U23 back row would be a pair of 21 year olds who haven't even cracked the Prem yet... I'll stand by dogturd! I'd imagine you'd move Ludlam at 7 and play Barrow at 6 given the current resources.

 

[Crapspray]

I can only presume Underhill is unselectable while in Wales until proven otherwise and obvs Clifford is missing.

And yeah, Ludlam and Chisholm look decent enough at JWC level, but when the stars of your U23 back row would be a pair of 21 year olds who haven't even cracked the Prem yet... I'll stand by dogturd! I'd imagine you'd move Ludlam at 7 and play Barrow at 6 given the current resources.

Ah, well I didn't think about the Wales thing. Need more coffee obviously.

I was looking at it more as a cohort. I don't see any of them pushing to be in the seniors for a long while, and the thought of that happening is nightmarish, but compared to their contemporaries from other nations they're decent enough.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Will playing in Wales will affect not being selected for an age group tour?

Isn't it only EPS and Saxons the it affects.

 

[McTallshort]

No Cipriani.