England Post-WC discussion

[Crapspray]

Out of interest what happens if terms are not agreed and Borthwick just turns up at England?

Bristol will send Andy Robinson down as well. The nuclear option.

 

[Peat]

Out of interest what happens if terms are not agreed and Borthwick just turns up at England?

I imagine Bristol sue Borthwick for breach of contract.

 

[ncurd]

I imagine Bristol sue Borthwick for breach of contract.

Yes but by all reasonable attempts from what it sounds like the RFU have tried to buy out that contract. The reality is it sounds more likely Bristol are in breech for restricting Borthwick's right to find work where he wishes (and remember as far as the EU are concerned Human Rights triumphs over anything else). This could end up with Bristol getting sod all.

 

[j'nuh]

Yes but by all reasonable attempts from what it sounds like the RFU have tried to buy out that contract. The reality is it sounds more likely Bristol are in breech for restricting Borthwick's right to find work where he wishes (and remember as far as the EU are concerned Human Rights triumphs over anything else). This could end up with Bristol getting sod all.

They could also really harm their future recruitment efforts, for coaches and players.

If I was an out-of-contract player, Bristol would be one of the last places I would look for employment after this.

 

[ncurd]

They could also really harm their future recruitment efforts, for coaches and players.

If I was an out-of-contract player, Bristol would be one of the last places I would look for employment after this.

Not to mention if they are found to have broken the law on this the RFU will 99% give them some hefty penalties as their regulatory body.

 

[Maverick1987]

Bristol will send Andy Robinson down as well. The nuclear option.

In this case maybe we should let them keep Borthwick ......

 

[Tony Manx]

IMO, it's a basic (moral, I'm not sure about legal) human right that a worker is not forced into working for someone; otherwise it is slavery. The right to walk away from employment should be kept by all workers. If a change in my circumstances means that I need to move halfway across the country, I shouldn't be forced to turn up at work, despite any employment contracts signed. My employer then has the right to fire me.

An argument can be made that he knew what he was getting into when he accepted a fixed term contract, but I disagree. When an industry (sports) is completely run on these types of contracts, what option does a worker in the professional sports industry have? It's only in sports that I have ever heard of a worker being expected to see out their contract.

So for me, Bristol has little to justify their position, at least morally. They have been offered way more than the contract is worth, not letting Borthwick go is scummy. Yeah, it screws them over, but the rights of the individual wins out here.

There is a difference between a fixed term contract and a contract of employment! The latter gives each side the right to terminate and the employee the implied right under legislation to sue for wrongful dismissal.....so stacked in the employee's favour.

The fixed term contract is just that! Both sides have to and should honor it but the employee still has the unfair dismissal compensation right (a la Mourhino being the 40 million bandied about as possible compensation!)

If an employee enters into a fixed term contract he should be expected to honor it or pay to shorten it....that is only equitable. However, the employee and employer could of course agree to mutually terminate it - which is often the case.

Bath are perfectly entitled to demand compensation and this amount would be settled in the courts if it cannot be agreed? I would expect that Bath could get an injunction to stop SB from working for the RFU if compensation is not agreed or even until paid.......

 

[ncurd]

Bath are perfectly entitled to demand compensation and this amount would be settled in the courts if it cannot be agreed? I would expect that Bath could get an injunction to stop SB from working for the RFU if compensation is not agreed or even until paid.......

Why do you keep saying Bath? Is it a joke?

 

[Tony Manx]

Apologies!! BRISTOL.....no idea why I could possibly mix them up!!!!

 

[ratsapprentice]

Harrison continues to play very well.

Carries, tackles, rucks and jackals very well - haven't seen much link play from him yet, but it'll be interesting to see where he stands in 6 months time.

 

[Tmartin995]

Harrison continues to play very well.

Carries, tackles, rucks and jackals very well - haven't seen much link play from him yet, but it'll be interesting to see where he stands in 6 months time.

I'd second that, been very impressed whenever I've seen him this season. Can't believe Saints have kept him hidden away since 2012!

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Bet that turnover made a certain someone wet.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Bet that turnover made a certain someone wet.

He's the player that Saints fans have been pretending that Wood and Clark are.

Good interview with Big Dave, in the Telegraph; some quotes:

"Making big tackles against big blokes – not necessarily just tackling the little people really hard but tackling the big people really hard and providing that stopping power. There are big moments in a game where you can shift the momentum of a game and that's what I try to offer."

Sly dig at Lawes? ^

"They decided they had seen a lot from George Kruis in terms of his involvements," Attwood said. "They felt his numbers were really good. I can't argue with that. They are good. I felt my type of involvements were different.
"I think Joe Launchbury, Geoff Parling and to a lesser extent Courtney Lawes are centred around numbers and fulfilling that criteria. I think of all the second rows I was the one who was possibly different. If you want to add a bit more scrum ballast, a bit more impact, then I think I have illustrated many times that I can provide that."

"That's why I felt aggrieved, because I felt I offered something different. I felt with that selection there was not a lot of room to manoeuvre in terms of the game plan – this is the way we are going to do it and if it is not working we are going to carry on doing it."

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

He's the player that Saints fans have been pretending that Wood and Clark are.

Good interview with Big Dave, in the Telegraph; some quotes:


Sly dig at Lawes? ^

Can't believe we left him at home for statistics lawes!!! Absolutely mental

 

[McTallshort]

He's the player that Saints fans have been pretending that Wood and Clark are.

Good interview with Big Dave, in the Telegraph; some quotes:


Sly dig at Lawes? ^

Any cream with those sour grapes Mr Attwood?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Attwood is a TRF user: Confirmed.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

1000% right about Lawes.

I like Attwood.

Now to find out which user he is.

He is mot By the way.

 

[Peat]

Can't believe we left him at home for statistics lawes!!! Absolutely mental

Can't agree with that.

Attwood simply isn't involved enough. You can't expect to beat a team that is working harder than you and it's no good making massive meaty hits if 1 time out of 5 you're just not there yet. The numbers being posted up by all the other locks aren't optional; if a lock isn't getting close to making as many rucks, carries, tackles and so on as the likes of Retallick, Etzebeth, Gray, Jones - he's not good enough. It's that simple. That's the standard.

Of course, you do need impact and big meaty hits and the rest of it - after all, the guys named are doing it - and England do have a problem there. I think Attwood's work rate at international level is a gigantic minus but I do still kind of wish he'd gone, he'd have been a useful impact sub. Starting? You'd have to really build around that, I'm not sure he's that good.

Take him ahead of Lawes? Nope. I think people have gone far too carried away the criticism of Lawes, who's a fantastic counter-jumper, a very good defender - particularly in terms of operating out wide and cover defence - works very hard and has the mobility to get to good places quickly, and is comfortable ball in hand in the wider channels compared to a lot of our players. He's far from perfect but the idea he does nothing but hit small guys is ridiculous.

I really get the desire for more physicality but the work rate isn't optional. We'll see what Eddie wants and gets out of him but my guess is he'll be telling Dave to match those numbers.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Looks like the Borthwick saga is finally over, and he's left Bristol/joined England.

 

[Peat]

Looks like the Borthwick saga is finally over, and he's left Bristol/joined England.

Confirmed - http://www.bristolrugby.co.uk/news/club-statement-steve-borthwick-1/