[England] Post-6N/Pre-RWC Player Watch

[Duck a l'Orange]

Totally agree Peat, but how do we make a team that can free them up? Tbh, I think that we ask too much of the back row atm; we expect them to hit rucks, jackal, tackle, jump in the lineout, link with the backs, carry, etc. There are players that can do all that (Robshaw, you beautiful man) but it's nigh on impossible to find someone who can be international standard at all of them, in the same game. With Launchbury and Cole the need for jackals is slightly reduced, and playing someone like Mako or Brookes would help with carrying, and so on. Problem is, they've all got jobs as well.
Seeming as we've got potential backrows that do nearly everything but jump at the lineout, is there maybe space for a hooker that can jump in the team?

 

[yaboyjj]

Totally agree Peat, but how do we make a team that can free them up? Tbh, I think that we ask too much of the back row atm; we expect them to hit rucks, jackal, tackle, jump in the lineout, link with the backs, carry, etc. There are players that can do all that (Robshaw, you beautiful man) but it's nigh on impossible to find someone who can be international standard at all of them, in the same game. With Launchbury and Cole the need for jackals is slightly reduced, and playing someone like Mako or Brookes would help with carrying, and so on. Problem is, they've all got jobs as well.
Seeming as we've got potential backrows that do nearly everything but jump at the lineout, is there maybe space for a hooker that can jump in the team?

Now that would be impressive

 

[chippieolamus]

Totally agree Peat, but how do we make a team that can free them up? Tbh, I think that we ask too much of the back row atm; we expect them to hit rucks, jackal, tackle, jump in the lineout, link with the backs, carry, etc. There are players that can do all that (Robshaw, you beautiful man) but it's nigh on impossible to find someone who can be international standard at all of them, in the same game. With Launchbury and Cole the need for jackals is slightly reduced, and playing someone like Mako or Brookes would help with carrying, and so on. Problem is, they've all got jobs as well.
Seeming as we've got potential backrows that do nearly everything but jump at the lineout, is there maybe space for a hooker that can jump in the team?

That'd be impressive, seeing someone catch their own throw at the lineout!

To be honest, I'd love to see (subs in brackets):
Marler (Corbs)
Youngs (George)
Cole (Wilson)
Lawes (Attwood)
Launchbury
Itoje
Robshaw
Morgan/Billy

Not sure it'll happen though.

 

[yaboyjj]

That'd be impressive, seeing someone catch their own throw at the lineout!

To be honest, I'd love to see (subs in brackets):
Marler (Corbs)
Youngs (George)
Cole (Wilson)
Lawes (Attwood)
Launchbury
Itoje
Robshaw
Morgan/Billy

Not sure it'll happen though.

I'm not sure that Corbs will ever be back to his 2013 form- Mako makes a pretty handy sub too.

RE Burgess, I thought the Quins backrow kept them in the game on friday, of which imo Clifford looked the much better player ball in hand to Burgess (slowing down the breakdown too). And no way Itoje is an 8- he neither has the pace nor carrying ability, he's a decent secondary carryer now and again but can't compete with what Vunipola/Morgan offer in that department. His skillset is much more suited to blindside and maybe lock.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

How's everyone feeling about Corbs?

Pre-injury i was a massive fan, but since he's come back this time he's been.....average at best, and he's been back long enough that he should be match fit and used to the new laws.
Considering how well Mako has played since his return, the consistent quality of Mullan and how well Marler was playing before injury - I'm not sure I'd take him to the world cup.

 

[yaboyjj]

How's everyone feeling about Corbs?

Pre-injury i was a massive fan, but since he's come back this time he's been.....average at best, and he's been back long enough that he should be match fit and used to the new laws.
Considering how well Mako has played since his return, the consistent quality of Mullan and how well Marler was playing before injury - I'm not sure I'd take him to the world cup.

He has obviously lost a bit of brute strength since his weight loss, and he probably relied on that to gain the advantage- unlike Mullan who has always been small and is a player of technique (I think Mullan is an OK stopgap to come on in the last 20, and usually holds his own in the scrum- but not much more than that). Atm I'd be tempted to take 3 tight heads and only 2 LH's- Cole, Wilson, Brookes, Marler, Vunipola- It's funny that suddenly English TH stocks look better than LH, I'd probably throw Thomas into the mix too.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I'd do the same, to be honest.
Brookes and Wilson also have some experience of playing loosehead, if there was an emergency, too - I'd feel better about one of them on the loose than Corbs on the tight.

 

[Peat]

How's everyone feeling about Corbs?

Pre-injury i was a massive fan, but since he's come back this time he's been.....average at best, and he's been back long enough that he should be match fit and used to the new laws.
Considering how well Mako has played since his return, the consistent quality of Mullan and how well Marler was playing before injury - I'm not sure I'd take him to the world cup.

I am simultaneously the biggest fan of Corbs on this board and the most contemptuous of the value of Premiership form as a barometer, but it appears he has come back as a lesser athlete than he was and that seems to have lowered his ceiling and, well, that might be that. Would I take him to the WC? I think so, he's not completely gone and has valuable experience/can just do a job at tighthead, but I think its up to Marler and Vunipola for the first two... of which, I think I'd tip Vunipola, sooner rather than later.

 

[j'nuh]

I don't think being able to cover the other side is all that important. If we take three looseheads and two tightheads and one of the tightheads were to get injured, I'd think that we'd sooner call up another tighthead than play a loosehead there. At least, I'd hope we'd do that.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

If Corbs starts against Leicester it will be a big test Cole is on rich form.


I'm hoping Slater gets a chance to show some form IF we can get into the play offs on form I rate him more than Attwood.

 

[Peat]

I don't think being able to cover the other side is all that important. If we take three looseheads and two tightheads and one of the tightheads were to get injured, I'd think that we'd sooner call up another tighthead than play a loosehead there. At least, I'd hope we'd do that.

Please see all previous posts about the inadvisability of relying on calling up players considering the possibility of short term injuries and wanting to keep important players.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

For the World Cup what about launch berry at 6? With either lawes & Atwood or kruis?

Since we can't find a rounded 6

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

Now that would be impressive

I'm glad everyone got that
Would anyone be against Kruis starting/going to six late on in the game for England? He's played very well there for Sarries before.

 

[Peat]

I'm glad everyone got that
Would anyone be against Kruis starting/going to six late on in the game for England? He's played very well there for Sarries before.

I'm against Kruis being involved in a full strength England 23 full stop tbh.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

People mentioned other carriers in the pack to have a moe nimble 8 but we seem to be forgetting that we still have Tuilagi, who used to be our most destructive carrier. Factor him into the squad at 12 and you have the opportunity to change the 8 role from being the primary carrier to something else.

 

[Mumbles119]

People mentioned other carriers in the pack to have a moe nimble 8 but we seem to be forgetting that we still have Tuilagi, who used to be our most destructive carrier. Factor him into the squad at 12 and you have the opportunity to change the 8 role from being the primary carrier to something else.

I can't help but feel Tuilagi is a backward step. The success of our back line due to the inclusion of Ford and Joseph is too great to miss.

It's a difficult choice, as what team would not want a destructive player like Tuilagi. But what is best for England will be Tuilagi at 23.

Maybe at 12, but I am not confident about that, as he only has potential to be a playmaker there, nothing really proven. And not at wing either, we have seen too often (Watson, May etc...) that speed makes the difference when those small gaps at international level do rarely appear.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I can't help but feel Tuilagi is a backward step. The success of our back line due to the inclusion of Ford and Joseph is too great to miss.

It's a difficult choice, as what team would not want a destructive player like Tuilagi. But what is best for England will be Tuilagi at 23.

Maybe at 12, but I am not confident about that, as he only has potential to be a playmaker there, nothing really proven. And not at wing either, we have seen too often (Watson, May etc...) that speed makes the difference when those small gaps at international level do rarely appear.

But then has either Burrell or Twelvetrees proved they are playmakers at the top level?

 

[Peat]

But then has either Burrell or Twelvetrees proved they are playmakers at the top level?

Quite.

Plus, you know, we have no idea how Ford and Tuilagi would go.

But if Ford-Tuilagi-Joseph isn't tried once, I am going to turn Lancaster's uretha into a hedgehog breeding farm. It is the obvious best backline we can put out in terms of potential.

 

[Patchey]

Quite.

Plus, you know, we have no idea how Ford and Tuilagi would go.

But if Ford-Tuilagi-Joseph isn't tried once, I am going to turn Lancaster's uretha into a hedgehog breeding farm. It is the obvious best backline we can put out in terms of potential.

What a violent bit of imagery...

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

We all moan when Lancaster plays players out of position know you all want (in the very little time we have) to gamble on a 13 to transfer to 12 in a couple of games?

Are you all mad? If tuilgi doesn't work then we will have missed the opportunity to cement a decent 12 with ford and JJ.

However rubbish 12trees, Burrell, Barrett and Farrell have been at 12, I still think they be better than tuilgi there.

I might be wrong but we don't really have any time to try things out.

No centre pairing still is shambolic Bu Lancaster really.