[England] Post-6N/Pre-RWC Player Watch

[Duck a l'Orange]

Despite Haskell looking like superman incarnate, he never seems to live up to expectations in the ball carrying department. That is, despite being built like a supertanker (to the detriment of his line-out ability), he doesn't really carry like one- especially on the international stage (Wales match is the only exception in the last 20 caps).

Did he look like that when he won his first cap/first played for Wasps? I've always kind of wondered, meanly, if that was the only reason he offers anything in professional rugby.

 

[Raggs]

Haskell from memory doesn't weigh that much more than Wood. He is very well defined, but not necessarily that much bigger.

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

Haskell from memory doesn't weigh that much more than Wood. He is very well defined, but not necessarily that much bigger.

I was thinking more about strength in the tackle and turnovers, especially choke tackle rips. He shouldn't lost any mobility/flexibility from it and he's as tall as Wood too.

 

[TheSaffycen]

Wood is 1.95m and weighs 107kgs,
Haskell is 1.94 and 114kgs.
Wood has slimmed don to improve his stamina and lineout work, too me this has been a mistake. At club level Clark has some brunt but Wood doesn't bring enough physicality at intl to compliment Robshaw. Haskell by those stats should but it just never seems to work, if I was him I would lose a bit of weight and get better at lineout time. His fitness is already great but he needs an area of expertise.

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

Wood is 1.95m and weighs 107kgs,
Haskell is 1.94 and 114kgs.
Wood has slimmed don to improve his stamina and lineout work, too me this has been a mistake. At club level Clark has some brunt but Wood doesn't bring enough physicality at intl to compliment Robshaw. Haskell by those stats should but it just never seems to work, if I was him I would lose a bit of weight and get better at lineout time. His fitness is already great but he needs an area of expertise.

I think lineout capability of his six is less of a concern for Lancaster now- Robshaw didn't do too badly over the Six Nations and it opens the way for a heavier, carrying six.

 

[TheSaffycen]

Problem is that Billy Vunipola does not go up. That means if You have Ewers and Billy than you only have Berry and Lawes as the main jumpers, Robshaw should be a last resort not the only other option from your locks. It can be done but with the fact that our hookers aren't Du Plessis and their darts have been off we need a croft/Wood or Itoje to give three genuine and a back up option.

 

[Tony Manx]

.......if I was him I would lose a bit of weight..........

Something his girlfriend would not mind either.....

 

[Peat]

Wood is 1.95m and weighs 107kgs,
Haskell is 1.94 and 114kgs.
Wood has slimmed don to improve his stamina and lineout work, too me this has been a mistake. At club level Clark has some brunt but Wood doesn't bring enough physicality at intl to compliment Robshaw. Haskell by those stats should but it just never seems to work, if I was him I would lose a bit of weight and get better at lineout time. His fitness is already great but he needs an area of expertise.

Never is a strong word, it looked great at times this 6N.

I think the truth of Hask by now is that he will never quite be that top level guy. He is a genuinely powerful unit but he is not quite powerful enough to survive off of that alone. His breakdown work is good but not great, he'll never be a top lineout guy, not quite fast enough to be standout. He works incredibly hard but that's a given for an international flanker really. Some of his linking work's been top rate, but it's not quite on show enough. But, truth told, combining all those assets together should probably make for a better flanker than Haskell is - but he's lacking a crucial bit of game intelligence. He's not a player who makes a habit of being in the right place in the right time, he's not a player who really consistently makes the most of what he has. Think it shows in his penalty count as well. I think if he had even average smarts he'd be nailed on, if he had top level smarts he'd be a very good player indeed. But he's not.

He's like just 5% off being the player we need.

England's problem of course is that for most of his career he's been comfortably in the 5 best players we could call on for his position anyway, often in the 3 best. I think he probably currently is.

I don't think that's really disagreeing with your post btw Saffy, just expanding on it, with an addendum that's there no point talking about what Hask needs to do to be our man because if he could do it he'd have done it by now - but still might be the man for starting blindside anyway. Him and Robshaw aren't a horrible combo, that little point I do disagree on.

 

[TheSaffycen]

Actually you've made a very good point on Haskell- the top 5%. He hasn't got a brain and is sometimes a liability, the same goes with Wood recently. We need a player who has the brains of Robshaw, the tackling of Robshaw and the workrate of Robshaw. If only we had a guy like Robshaw who could play 6 so that we could have a player who can link up, jackal and loose carry around like Kvesic. Just no idea what combination we could play......

 

[ratsapprentice]

I think Haskell is more like 118-120kg - I've heard him say so numerous times in the last year or two.

He was definitely more svelte when he first won England caps, I recall him being quite rapid off the back of the scrum as an 8.

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

Actually you've made a very good point on Haskell- the top 5%. He hasn't got a brain and is sometimes a liability, the same goes with Wood recently. We need a player who has the brains of Robshaw, the tackling of Robshaw and the workrate of Robshaw. If only we had a guy like Robshaw who could play 6 so that we could have a player who can link up, jackal and loose carry around like Kvesic. Just no idea what combination we could play......

You've made my day with that If only Kvesic could jump, that backrow would have it all.
Edit: With Vunipola/Morgan/similar at 8.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Actually you've made a very good point on Haskell- the top 5%. He hasn't got a brain and is sometimes a liability, the same goes with Wood recently. We need a player who has the brains of Robshaw, the tackling of Robshaw and the workrate of Robshaw. If only we had a guy like Robshaw who could play 6 so that we could have a player who can link up, jackal and loose carry around like Kvesic. Just no idea what combination we could play......

Wood has a brilliant rugby brain and a good workrate and is great at the breakdown.....

It's just his not a great carrier and his tackling is too similar to robshaw in the way he tackles but doesn't smash people.

Let's face it we don't have a complete 6.

Can we breed Haskell and wood and ewers?

 

[TheSaffycen]

We only have had 2 guys perform for England everytime they put on the white shirt in our back row, Morgan and Robshaw. I can't think of a game where Robshaw can walk off the pitch and as a player not feel he performed. Even when we lost 30-3 I think he was still a stand out guy for us. Morgan apart from his initial SA tour has been immense. I never rated him high enough until this recent AI and with Billy we have two great guys.

Wood has a brilliant rugby brain and a good workrate and is great at the breakdown.....

It's just his not a great carrier and his tackling is too similar to robshaw in the way he tackles but doesn't smash people.

Let's face it we don't have a complete 6.

Can we breed Haskell and wood and ewers?

He did until the last few performances, his form just seemed to go at the start of the season. On a complete 6 Fearns isn't far off. Big impacts, workrate but I don't know about his lineout work.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

So what everyone is saying is we need croft back fit ASAP.

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

We only have had 2 guys perform for England everytime they put on the white shirt in our back row, Morgan and Robshaw. I can't think of a game where Robshaw can walk off the pitch and as a player not feel he performed. Even when we lost 30-3 I think he was still a stand out guy for us. Morgan apart from his initial SA tour has been immense. I never rated him high enough until this recent AI and with Billy we have two great guys.




He did until the last few performances, his form just seemed to go at the start of the season. On a complete 6 Fearns isn't far off. Big impacts, workrate but I don't know about his lineout work.

I've heard there's a little known prospect down with Bath... Bam Surgess,Sum Bargess? Has he been jumping, or just lifting?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I've heard there's a little known prospect down with Bath... Bam Surgess,Sum Bargess? Has he been jumping, or just lifting?

Are you sure you're not talking about Sam Burgess isn't really little known you know. Pretty much been in the media for a while and quite well known.

 

[Irishkid]

I'll say it once
6 Robshaw
7 Steff
8 Morgan

19 Burgess

 

[MrTea_32]

I think haskell is showing now he's a great club player but comes unstuck at international level. I like haskell as a player but he's not the answer for us at 6 and this is.showing more and more with young players like ewers and itoje coming through. Wood isn't on form and like others have said he's too much like robshaw.
I'd like to see Itoje and Ewers battle it out for the 6 shirt and also see Burgess brought in.

 

[McTallshort]

Are you sure you're not talking about Sam Burgess isn't really little known you know. Pretty much been in the media for a while and quite well known.

Never heard of him

 

[TheSaffycen]

Are you sure you're not talking about Sam Burgess isn't really little known you know. Pretty much been in the media for a while and quite well known.

Are you sure ? I've watched BT Sport but they never seem to bring him up, did he always play union since a young lad ?