[England] Post-6N/Pre-RWC Player Watch

[Ragey Erasmus]

Goode's attempts at doing a sidestep are laughable though. MB could always beat the first defender, Goode is always beaten by the first defender. A prop could sidestep better than Goode.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Thinking about it, this does open the door a little more to Daly.
Unfortunately for him he's been concentrating on 13 rather than 15, as that seemed the way into the EPS before.

 

[goodNumber10]

Goode's attempts at doing a sidestep are laughable though. MB could always beat the first defender, Goode is always beaten by the first defender. A prop could sidestep better than Goode.

that is simply not true.

Goode nearly always beats the first defender.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Freddie Burns has played 15 for Tigers this season.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

that is simply not true.

Goode nearly always beats the first defender.

I'm yet to see him do it in an England shirt. The man has no sidestepping ability. He has minimal agility, little pace and not a great deal of strength. How do you propose he beats anyone?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

He does it very well for saracens,
But then he's repeatedly shown that his club form/attributes means nothing when in an England shirt.

 

[goodNumber10]

I'm yet to see him do it in an England shirt. The man has no sidestepping ability. He has minimal agility, little pace and not a great deal of strength. How do you propose he beats anyone?

- - - Updated - - -

He does it very well for saracens,
But then he's repeatedly shown that his club form/attributes means nothing when in an England shirt.

he's done it plenty of time for England... he's not got blistering top end pace, and i'm nt syaing he should play for England, but he quite often will beat the first defender in a pressure situation even at the elite level, and to claim otherwise is simply not true.

I also think it's important we don't get hung up on looking for a carbon copy of Brown.

 

[Patchey]

Goode is a right David Strettle.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

The Golden Boy LOL

Who did that himself?

 

[yaboyjj]

From what I've heard, it doesn't sound too encouraging about Brown- could be a long lay off, even if fit for the WC, he may not have played much at all by that stage..
I guess if he were out, Goode would go as the first fb, then maybe Pennell as second (with Watson as third option). I think the issue with Goode is that he doesn't posses the top end athletic ability to excell at international level- he was out-jumped by Henderson and is often found lacking for top end pace to offer substantial attacking threat.

Ford, Nowell, Barritt, Joseph, Watson, Goode -would probably be the line-up if they were to play tomorrow (Brown and Tuilagi would come in if fit).

Any ideas what the baabass line-up might be? (assuming Bath v Sarries final)
Simpson, Slade, May, Hill, Daly, Wade, Pennell (they might put Cips at 10 and Slade to IC)
Brookes, Yeandle?, Moon, Launch, Kitchener, Ewers, Kvesic, Waldrom

 

[Patchey]

The low down of Brown from the Quins management is that he should make the warm up games. But they've also emphasised that it's pretty difficult to put and recover timeline on it. And he is doing zero training.

General thought is he picked up a second concussion in the France game.

As for serious thought on who might be considered in his place? I think we'd probably see Pennell into the squad in his place/to cover him. Watson or Goode would be starters, likely depending on wing options (can another wing perform well enough that Lancaster is happy to move Watson?).

 

[Peat]

I have to say my abiding memory of Goode is being in the perfect position to catch the ball, running it back, that odd little shimmy and then running smack bang into the first defender and killing off our chances of an effective breakout from our own territory. The ability to wriggle out of those situations and the ability to add something entering the line are the two big things Brown's brought over Goode for me and I'd be very reluctant to go back to him.

 

[yaboyjj]

I have to say my abiding memory of Goode is being in the perfect position to catch the ball, running it back, that odd little shimmy and then running smack bang into the first defender and killing off our chances of an effective breakout from our own territory. The ability to wriggle out of those situations and the ability to add something entering the line are the two big things Brown's brought over Goode for me and I'd be very reluctant to go back to him.

Pretty accurate tbf, although he is a good 'footballer', good positionally and does sometimes manage to run himself out of trouble (he's another one from the Schalk Brits school of sidestepping), but I'd be worried about him defending a cross field/in behind kick against the likes of Falou/North

 

[goodNumber10]

I have to say my abiding memory of Goode is being in the perfect position to catch the ball, running it back, that odd little shimmy and then running smack bang into the first defender and killing off our chances of an effective breakout from our own territory. The ability to wriggle out of those situations and the ability to add something entering the line are the two big things Brown's brought over Goode for me and I'd be very reluctant to go back to him.

I'd also be very reluctant to go back to Goode, but I don't think it's accurate to say he doesn't' beat the first man.

He's good over that first 10 metres or so, but what he wont' do is run it back 20 metres and then beat a man - and there are very few people in the world who will. But in traffic he's excellent.

I think a lot of this comes form him being a 10 playing 15, he has the footwork to get throught eh gaps but he doesn't have the top end of brown/watson et al meaning that when eh has to counter over half a pitch he's expended his acceleration by the time contact comes. But in short traffic i'd say he's actually one of the best.

If all that makes sense.

- - - Updated - - -

The Golden Boy LOL

Who did that himself?

yeah, i had a bit of a WTF? moment when i first found it.

 

[91jmay]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPsvmXt9EH8
Yeah, he certainly can beat the first man.

- - - Updated - - -

Goode was poor against Ireland, not average, and Watson still hasn't learnt how to tackle. Were're in a bit of a pickle without Brown.
I hope they give Pennel some time in the warm-up matches- if there was one person to replicate the solidity of Brown at full back, the closest must be Pennel.

Goode wasn't poor against Ireland, talking nonsense. Took catches, beat players and gained meters. What about the run above from inside our goal line after a good kick when he beat 3 Ireland players and got it outside our 22?

Also considering the love in for him after he played great against Saints in the easiest circumstance possible gone a bit quiet on Abendanon.

 

[Peat]

I'd also be very reluctant to go back to Goode, but I don't think it's accurate to say he doesn't' beat the first man.

He's good over that first 10 metres or so, but what he wont' do is run it back 20 metres and then beat a man - and there are very few people in the world who will. But in traffic he's excellent.

I think a lot of this comes form him being a 10 playing 15, he has the footwork to get throught eh gaps but he doesn't have the top end of brown/watson et al meaning that when eh has to counter over half a pitch he's expended his acceleration by the time contact comes. But in short traffic i'd say he's actually one of the best.

If all that makes sense.

Maybe. I accept it as a theory and have neither the memory or inclination to counter it I mean, you might be right about Goode in traffic, but I honestly can't remember him being in that situation for England.

If I was to say he struggles to beat the first man on the kick return independent of other situations, would you go along with that? Elsewise I think we'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[chippieolamus]

I've never understood why Goode plays so poorly for England compared to Sarries.

 

[TheSaffycen]

Different level of athleticism.

 

[chippieolamus]

I guess, but he has generally also performed well at European Cup knockout level, which is close to international standard.

 

[Patchey]

Also considering the love in for him after he played great against Saints in the easiest circumstance possible gone a bit quiet on Abendanon.

I don't think anyone here was actually saying he should be called back, just hypothesising what might happen if he was. It was the press (well, Sky) who started that one...

Was nice of Saints to give him such an easy ride to remind us all how good he is though