England EPS 2017/18 edition.

[Every Time Ref]

I want
9) Youngs
10) Ford
11) Cips
12) Faz
13) Slade
14) Daly
15) Lozowski

damn it.

Yeah but where's the creativity?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Yeah but where's the creativity?

Who needs creativity when your team can just kick it away.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I would never take a shot at Simmonds saviour of English rugby I still have that Exeter Glous game on record just for his performance.

I feel he will be the one to take Maro Itoje legendary hand clap to another level

We need some sort of hand clap gif really

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Simmonds' clap is legendary in the south west, just ask his cousins.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Simmonds' clap is legendary in the south west, just ask his cousins.

Oh god can't like this enough LOL.

 

[BenJeffrey]

Would love to see a Faz-Tuilagi-Slade combination. Not sure we'll ever see it either, pushing that extra playmaker a man wider just seems to make sense with how teams attack currently.

But i'll take Faz-Teo-Joseph...

 

[Nudger]

This is probably a better discussion to have; it's the significantly more pressing issue. For me, they'll have to slot in at 13. In my mind Ford-Faz is bolted on at 10-12 and no powerful back three players have put their hands up. It'll be interesting to see how Earle and Cokonasiga develop, but they won't be getting a real look in this RWC cycle. So that leaves 13.

The 2 stand out options are obviously Te'o and Tuilagi, but both come with significant flaws. Te'o was fantastic on the Lions tour and I think has the quality to be an England starter but to back someone who will be 34 by 2019 is a pretty major gamble and so although I wouldn't rule him out, I'd try to avoid him if other options are available. Tuilagi is the most devastating centre on the planet when he's in form but form is obviously the major issue. Even if he's able to go uninjured, he's gotten far too big. He looks lethargic when he's running, as if he's trying to beat defenders with weight rather than with power - almost Bastareaud-esque. Backing such an injury prone player to redevelop the level of pace and explosiveness that made him so dangerous prior to his injuries would again be a pretty major gamble.

For those reasons, if we are to slot a powerful ball carrier into the team then it'd make sense to look elsewhere. The player that immediately stands out to me is Sam Hill. He's been seriously impressive since returning from injury; immensely physical in both attack and defence. Beyond that he's actually got a much better distribution game than he's given credit for and pretty mean footwork. I'd also expect him to be significantly faster than both Te'o and Tuilagi. The issue with him is of course that he has no experience at international level and with such strong competition for centre slots at Chiefs isn't even guaranteed to be starting for his club every week. Also the fact that he hasn't been selected for a single England squad since being an injury replacement for Slade in the 2016 Six Nations shows that EJ has no real interest in him.

So in conclusion, as it stands we have no reliable power runner to come into the side and so this was a waste of a post. Oops.

I agree only if Farrell plays 12 but his not a 12
He doesn't tackle hard enough he goes to high no line break threat so allows defences to drift so I am keeping my fingers crossed that teo or tuilangi can stay fit and prove their class but I'm not holding my breath

 

[curtbob7]

To be honest right now, unless our forwards are gonna be dominant, I wouldn't want Youngs or Ford starting. Playing like a right pair of idiots at the moment, especially Youngs.

Lack of an effective and fit 12 forces our hand a little though so Ford-Farrell will probably continue. Care is the better 9 currently and Robson deserves a shot but it wont happen.

 

[Scotty]

Underhill back for bath

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Would love to see a Faz-Tuilagi-Slade combination

Might not be the prettiest, but potentially very effective

IMO the problem is not our back line its our forwards

Ah there's the rub. As Leicester are currently showing it's tough for half backs behind an average pack. Game's a whole lot easier with a pack on the front foot.

Another if everyone's fit and on form / wishful thinking / it'll never happen XV for Japan....

1. Genge
2. George
3. Cole (yes I know, but....)
4. Launch
5. Kruis
6. Simmonds
7. Underhill
8. Binny
9. Robson
10. Faz
11. May
12. Manu / Teo
13. Slade
14. Daly
15. Watson

Subs: Mako, LCD, Sinckler, Itoje, Lawes, Care, Ford, Nowell.

Itoje and Lawes on the bench looks nuts, but maybe that's the best way of getting the best out of the 4 locks? They're more impactful - Kruis & Launch are perfectly capable of holding their own against anyone for 45 / 50 minutes and then you can unleash the 2 more dynamic players, one maybe in the back row, for the last half an hour when the game's there to be decided. Counter intuitive and not the way to go if it was a team game, but it's about how to best use the whole squad. Games are seldom decided in the first half and those finishers would seriously up the pace as the game opens up.

 

[Nudger]

Might not be the prettiest, but potentially very effective



Ah there's the rub. As Leicester are currently showing it's tough for half backs behind an average pack. Game's a whole lot easier with a pack on the front foot.

Another if everyone's fit and on form / wishful thinking / it'll never happen XV for Japan....

1. Genge
2. George
3. Cole (yes I know, but....)
4. Launch
5. Kruis
6. Simmonds
7. Underhill
8. Binny
9. Robson
10. Faz
11. May
12. Manu / Teo
13. Slade
14. Daly
15. Watson

Subs: Mako, LCD, Sinckler, Itoje, Lawes, Care, Ford, Nowell.

Itoje and Lawes on the bench looks nuts, but maybe that's the best way of getting the best out of the 4 locks? They're more impactful - Kruis & Launch are perfectly capable of holding their own against anyone for 45 / 50 minutes and then you can unleash the 2 more dynamic players, one maybe in the back row, for the last half an hour when the game's there to be decided. Counter intuitive and not the way to go if it was a team game, but it's about how to best use the whole squad. Games are seldom decided in the first half and those finishers would seriously up the pace as the game opens up.

I like it

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I think it's a real pity we haven't been able to find any good THs to replace Cole. He is Mr Distinctly Average in everything outside the scrum where he is merely mr good. I wouldn't say his scrummaging was that far ahead of other decent scrummagers and his work everywhere else may have been good about 10 years ago but not any more. Sinckler is looking good as 1 alternative but still has poop for brains, so in that sense it would be like for like.

As for that team, Do we want to go to a bashing 12? We just pretty much got the whole world hooked on the idea of the 2nd playmaker model at 12 and now proposing moving away from it to the older bashing 12 model. I think among other things moving away from 1 directional players at 12 is what helped England go that step further that they failed to do for years.

 

[TheSaffycen]

I thought England were doing pretty well.....

We need to have carrying power in the pack, there isn't a big skilful guy in the centres to pick. England could have Vunipola(s), George, Ewers and Lawes. Nowell in the backs could be a power option, why can't he sit at 13 in attack sometimes? JJ can sit on the wing in some plays, he's got the finishing and pace. Have LCD, Sinkler and Genge on the bench, and there's no issues with carrying.

 

[Mumbles119]

I thought England were doing pretty well.....

We need to have carrying power in the pack, there isn't a big skilful guy in the centres to pick. England could have Vunipola(s), George, Ewers and Lawes. Nowell in the backs could be a power option, why can't he sit at 13 in attack sometimes? JJ can sit on the wing in some plays, he's got the finishing and pace. Have LCD, Sinkler and Genge on the bench, and there's no issues with carrying.

A sound plan, I like it!

 

[BPM]

Might not be the prettiest, but potentially very effective



Ah there's the rub. As Leicester are currently showing it's tough for half backs behind an average pack. Game's a whole lot easier with a pack on the front foot.

Another if everyone's fit and on form / wishful thinking / it'll never happen XV for Japan....

1. Genge
2. George
3. Cole (yes I know, but....)
4. Launch
5. Kruis
6. Simmonds
7. Underhill
8. Binny
9. Robson
10. Faz
11. May
12. Manu / Teo
13. Slade
14. Daly
15. Watson

Subs: Mako, LCD, Sinckler, Itoje, Lawes, Care, Ford, Nowell.

Itoje and Lawes on the bench looks nuts, but maybe that's the best way of getting the best out of the 4 locks? They're more impactful - Kruis & Launch are perfectly capable of holding their own against anyone for 45 / 50 minutes and then you can unleash the 2 more dynamic players, one maybe in the back row, for the last half an hour when the game's there to be decided. Counter intuitive and not the way to go if it was a team game, but it's about how to best use the whole squad. Games are seldom decided in the first half and those finishers would seriously up the pace as the game opens up.

I'm not loving that back row. Individually I like all three players but none of them is particularly good lineout operator which would leave us with only two jumpers (not enough in test rugby).

I can kind of see your logic re. Itoje and Lawes but I'm not sure it's the best way to go.

On current/recent form I'd have:

1. Genge
2. George
3. Williams
4. Itoje
5. Launchbury
6. Robshaw
7. B. Curry
8. B. Vunipola
9. Care
10. Ford
11. Daly
12. Farrell
13. Joseph
14. May
15. Watson

16. Cowan-Dickie 17. M. Vunipola 18. Sinckler 19. Lawes 20. Simmonds 21. Youngs 22. Tuilagi/Te'o 23. Nowell

 

[Scotty]

I'm not loving that back row. Individually I like all three players but none of them is particularly good lineout operator which would leave us with only two jumpers (not enough in test rugby).

I can kind of see your logic re. Itoje and Lawes but I'm not sure it's the best way to go.

On current/recent form I'd have:

1. Genge
2. George
3. Williams
4. Itoje
5. Launchbury
6. Robshaw
7. B. Curry
8. B. Vunipola
9. Care
10. Ford
11. Daly
12. Farrell
13. Joseph
14. May
15. Watson

16. Cowan-Dickie 17. M. Vunipola 18. Sinckler 19. Lawes 20. Simmonds 21. Youngs 22. Tuilagi/Te'o 23. Nowell

Agree with alot your team pretty much,
LCD deserves a shot/George deserves the start.

Genge/sinkler would bring alot of carrying off the bench.

Id have simmonds in for B.curry and him on the bench. But thats just personal preference. Need the carrying

Potentially underhill over Robshaw for RWC if given robshaws age,if underhill lives up to expectation.

Nowell vs may id choose Nowell brings alot more in defence and workrate aswell as being a stronger carrier. May is just really quick and doesnt excell in any other area over the other wingers, his pace comes in against a tired defence.

Mako to start just to get experience in the front row bringing genge sinks on has 2 wrecking balls in the last 20.

Youngs os the better starter and care is great at the end.

My team;

1. Mako
2. George
3. Williams
4. Itoje
5. Launchbury(or lawes but launch is as good to start)
6. Underhill
7. Simmonds
8. B. Vunipola
9. Care
10. Ford
11. Daly
12. Farrell
13. Joseph
14. Nowell
15. Watson

16. Cowan-Dickie 17. Genge 18. Sinckler 19. Lawes 20. B.curry 21. Youngs 22. Tuilagi/Te'o 23. May

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Youngs os the better starter and care is great at the end.

My team;

1. Mako
2. George
3. Williams
4. Itoje
5. Launchbury(or lawes but launch is as good to start)
6. Underhill
7. Simmonds
8. B. Vunipola
9. Care
10. Ford
11. Daly
12. Farrell
13. Joseph
14. Nowell
15. Watson

16. Cowan-Dickie 17. Genge 18. Sinckler 19. Lawes 20. B.curry 21. Youngs 22. Tuilagi/Te'o 23. May

Taken straight out of the Trump school of being internally consistent in the space of one point

I'd pretty much agree with all of that and it would be my choice team. Only thing I'd like changed from that is seeing how Robson fares and replacing one of Care or Youngs with him depending on if we want him to control the majority of the game or finish off a tired team.

 

[Scotty]

Taken straight out of the Trump school of being internally consistent in the space of one point

I'd pretty much agree with all of that and it would be my choice team. Only thing I'd like changed from that is seeing how Robson fares and replacing one of Care or Youngs with him depending on if we want him to control the majority of the game or finish off a tired team.

Yeh yeh my bad. My point stands care over youngs but youngs is the better choice to start IMO.

Robson deserves a shot. care has proved great at speeding up the last 20, where as youngs is consistantly good and good at sniping runs but still has quite slow delivery.

So Robson controlling and care speeding it up at the end. I rate robson as great support runner and plays behinds the line waiting for the break.

 

[MarkyH]

Now. I don't wish bad on any player, but Haskell getting a red card today is, to me, great news for an England team that really should move on from him now....

"For Haskell, things may get worse. He will face disciplinary hearing this week and having been called into camp by England recently, he could be banned for the start of the Six Nations"

Add to this Mike Brown might of picked up a knock...

"Smith came on for Mike Brown who may yet prove an injury scare for England on the hour and had a hand in two late Harlequins tries"

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Bad news in the Sarries game with Binny being forced off with an arm injury
Hopefully just a stinger