England EPS 2016/17 season.

[ratsapprentice]

Nick Easter going straight into coaching in the premiership is a good example of that.

He's gone from Wimbledon to Quins without doing the steps inbetween.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Nick Easter going straight into coaching in the premiership is a good example of that.

He's gone from Wimbledon to Quins without doing the steps inbetween.

How do you know that is the case?

@ Tigers i know Blaze and Murphy both go to SA and NZ in the summer to work with SH teams coaching wise but it isn't publicised.

 

[Peat]

Well he can't have done it last summer, he was pretty busy!

Good on Tigers to get Blaze and Murphy down there though.

 

[Peat]

Just found this wee tidbit -

England are looking at ways to increase the stock of English coaches capable of taking over when Eddie Jones departs as national coach. Ritchie expects Jones to step aside at the end of 2019 – "I'm working on that assumption because that's what we based the deal on in the first place" – and is looking for "a seamless transition" involving English-born coaches who have operated outside the Premiership.

The RFU's professional rugby director, Nigel Melville, hopes to liaise with the clubs to help give up-and-coming coaches more international experience, either with England's age-group and Saxons squads, or overseas. "I think it's been proved that just being a Premiership coach does not necessarily make you a good international coach," Melville said. "We need to work together to develop the next generation of international coaches. There are some great young coaches out there who could be fantastic coaches in the future."

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/sep/27/england-twickenham-cash-australia-new-zealand

So there we go. RFU are working on it after all.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Just found this wee tidbit -

England are looking at ways to increase the stock of English coaches capable of taking over when Eddie Jones departs as national coach. Ritchie expects Jones to step aside at the end of 2019 – "I'm working on that assumption because that's what we based the deal on in the first place" – and is looking for "a seamless transition" involving English-born coaches who have operated outside the Premiership.

The RFU's professional rugby director, Nigel Melville, hopes to liaise with the clubs to help give up-and-coming coaches more international experience, either with England's age-group and Saxons squads, or overseas. "I think it's been proved that just being a Premiership coach does not necessarily make you a good international coach," Melville said. "We need to work together to develop the next generation of international coaches. There are some great young coaches out there who could be fantastic coaches in the future."

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/sep/27/england-twickenham-cash-australia-new-zealand

So there we go. RFU are working on it after all.

could be wrong but the last Premiership coach to go straight to the head coach role won us the RWC, everyone else was involved with the RFU in some way before getting the head job or Johnson.

 

[Peat]

could be wrong but the last Premiership coach to go straight to the head coach role won us the RWC, everyone else was involved with the RFU in some way before getting the head job or Johnson.

You've already been told you were wrong, Woodward was England U21 coach prior to getting the job as senior coach. So involved with the RFU too.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I look at the way aviva clubs play compared to NZ clubs and there is not a single Aviva coach who could even get close to making England compete against the ABs at that rate. Our club game is so slow and durgy compared to NZ and our coaching staff are unwilling to embrace the harder but better style of fast, on the fly rugby. We are a nation of set-piece and slow rugby and until that changes, we won't be going anywhere. The inertia in rugby is ****ing infuriating. We have to abandon the old style of play, IT DOES NOT WORK! The style NZ play is tougher to coach? Well tough, we need England players playing this style or we will forever be stuck as merely "good".

 

[ratsapprentice]

How do you know that is the case?

Because Wimbledon are a lower league amateur/semi-pro side and Quins are a premiership side with international players.

He didn't coach any clubs between last year when he was coaching Wimbledon and this, where he's coaching Quins.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

You've already been told you were wrong, Woodward was England U21 coach prior to getting the job as senior coach. So involved with the RFU too.

Fine so no coach has go from the AP to the RFU so Ritchie is still wrong with his statement.

 

[Peat]

Fine so no coach has go from the AP to the RFU so Ritchie is still wrong with his statement.

Apart from the fact its Melville's statement, not Ritchie, aye...

 

[CABCL]

May I ask when clubs will release the players for the national squad for the autumn tests ?

I want to compare with the French side... with chance, Noves should receive the french 1st range players for the second test... (a joke, but not so far from the reality).

I hope that France will improve for the next 6N, all NH needs strong France, Wales, Ireland and England. I think Cotter has done good job with Scotland despite the results... Scotts have stopped their falling with him... we need also a better squaddra azzura. To compete better with the SH. When i see the gap between NZ and the other in SH, we (in the NH) have to improve alot, first to pose problems to Oz, Pumas and Boks, then to NZ.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

May I ask when clubs will release the players for the national squad for the autumn tests ?

I want to compare with the French side... with chance, Noves should receive the french 1st range players for the second test... (a joke, but not so far from the reality).

I hope that France will improve for the next 6N, all NH needs strong France, Wales, Ireland and England. I think Cotter has done good job with Scotland despite the results... Scotts have stopped their falling with him... we need also a better squaddra azzura. To compete better with the SH. When i see the gap between NZ and the other in SH, we (in the NH) have to improve alot, first to pose problems to Oz, Pumas and Boks, then to NZ.

He has a 3 day training camp which started on Sunday with 37 players then announces the Final squad on the 26th October and the clubs releases the players on 30th October or 1st of Novemeber (Something like that) as the English clubs has the Anglo welsh cup games then.

 

[welshglory]

Thinking about it, I suppose that the development pathways for coaches are as poor as those for players when compared to New Zealand in particular. I'm not 100% up on The Championship in England, but a lot of the established names that come to mind as Championship coaches now or in recent times aren't from England. Cornish Pirates just down the road from me have an English coach (albeit in joint charge with a Welshman) in charge, I suspect that I'm forgetting someone who may have been English, but to my recollection, the last time they had an Englishman in charge was Peter Johnson mach in the late 1990s / early 2000s!

My impression is that Wales are a lot better at England at producing coaches, but not very good at keeping them in the country (down to money I guess). There have been a good few pass through Pirates ranks and quite a few (Clive Griffith at Doncaster and Mike Rayer) who were or still are well respected within the league.

The system is quite streamlined in Wales, true. The bigger problem rather than retention is that the poor standard of the Welsh Premiership doesn't really prepare coaches for professional regional rugby as well as it should, much the same same could be said for players. The RFU Championship is a lot better but like you say there isn't much of a system or incentives available to bring through young English coaches.

 

[CABCL]

He has a 3 day training camp which started on Sunday with 37 players then announces the Final squad on the 26th October and the clubs releases the players on 30th October or 1st of Novemeber (Something like that) as the English clubs has the Anglo welsh cup games then.

Thanks Tigs for the info... it sounds not much better than for french coach... NH has still alot to envy to SH national squads.

 

[Hulkster]

Watson now out with a broken jaw.

You'd like to think this would be Wade's chance, but it won't happen.

It just seems this England regime, much like the last, refuse to look beyond his size and don't take him seriously.

With Ashton, Nowell, May, Watson all unavailable I don't think it's remotely credible to say he's still not good enough to get in, but it is what it is.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Not sure if its been mentioned elsewhere, but Sam Jones broken leg occurred in one of the much vaunted judo sessions courtesy of Itoje. Kind of feels avoidable.

 

[ratsapprentice]

I don't really understand that at all, what happens if someone breaks a leg during a rugby session?

Do you say it's avoidable?

If the Judo session is relevant (which I'd suggest it definitely is), then I don't think it's any more avoidable than the Rugby sessions players get injured in all the time.

 

[ncurd]

Watson now out with a broken jaw.

You'd like to think this would be Wade's chance, but it won't happen.

It just seems this England regime, much like the last, refuse to look beyond his size and don't take him seriously.

With Ashton, Nowell, May, Watson all unavailable I don't think it's remotely credible to say he's still not good enough to get in, but it is what it is.

Roko surely has to be playing? Impresses week in week out unlike Wade.

 

[Every Time Ref]

I don't really understand that at all, what happens if someone breaks a leg during a rugby session?

Do you say it's avoidable?

If the Judo session is relevant (which I'd suggest it definitely is), then I don't think it's any more avoidable than the Rugby sessions players get injured in all the time.

Agree. It's no different to any other injury in training

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

The judo is supposed to be about improving jackling, one of the game's basic skills. Are national squad sessions really about coaching basics?? Those skills take years to engrain, what real gain could have been expected to arise from a couple of hours with the judo people?

Most sportsmen have clauses that they can't take part in extreme sports, or go skiing etc. yet we've been quite quite happy to expose the squad to the principles from an entirely different contact sport, with which most of them are unfamiliar. That increased the risk for only very potentially limited gain. That makes it different to a normal training injury in my eyes.

Will be interested to see whether this is repeated.

All spoken with 20:20 hindsight of course.