England 6N 2016 - General Chit Chat

[Tony Manx]

Apparently he told Tom Wood he wasn't in the squad as he didn't work hard enough.

There are only three possible conclusions here.

1) Jones is a genius who sees things no one else ever saw.
2) Jones is trolling players and doesn't care who knows.
3) Jones is an absolute idiot and we've been had.

Call me a cynical old bar steward but I laid my stall out about Jones at his appointment and have already stated that I wonder when the "believers" would turn.......have to say a little earlier than even I thought!!!

 

[Peat]

When we hear that Barritt got told he needed to work on his defence, that's when it will have jumped the shark...

edit: Oi! Tony. I wasn't in the believer's club.

 

[Colombia]

With the exception of 12 thats a Lancaster 23 (he'd have probably had Thomas over Hill, with Brookes out, as well, thinking about it).
See what Eddie Jones can get out of the same players.

People don't want to wait for thaaaaaaat, Eddie's XV doesn't match their fantasy XV (or flavor of the month XV) so they're out for blood....even though the team hasn't played a single game yet :lol:

All joy has died.

Even if they do well it will still feel squalid. One of Eddie Jones and Stuart Lancaster will end the Six Nations with a very dented reputation.

What am I reading? :lol:

He's not allowed to do well with the players he wants for his gameplan, it has to be with the players you want for his gameplan. It's lunacy , let the man coach, he has been doing it for a while you know, even won a few trophies in his time believe it or not.

If they fail, fair enough, stick the boot in, but give them (and him) a chance.

 

[TommiG88]

I'm not totally over the moon regarding the team selection, although we will be playing a different way to lancasters team so I will wait until after I have watched a replay of the Scottish game.

 

[Crapspray]

What am I reading? :lol:

He's not allowed to do well with the players he wants for his gameplan, it has to be with the players you want for his gameplan. It's lunacy , let the man coach, he has been doing it for a while you know, even won a few trophies in his time believe it or not.

If they fail, fair enough, stick the boot in, but give them (and him) a chance.

I might have been a little melodramatic (and an Anglo-Saxon nerd) with the first line. I am giving him a chance, but it will still be slightly disheartening if he manages to win the Six Nations using Lancaster's template for two main reasons:

1. The previous coaches are shown up to be much worse than we imagined. Which shows that the RFU/players were incapable/unwilling of learning this and pointing it out for four years. Made even worse as they will have been very influential, and wasteful, at the start of some very talented young players' careers.

2. The Six Nations will be confirmed as a tier-two tournament, and I don't see much improvement to wring out of it. Short of England and France no longer under-performing, I don't see any improvement in Ireland's pensioners and Wales are stuck playing Gatlandball. I try not to think about the long-term prospects of Scotland and Italy.

So if he manages to start with an underwhelming team and win, I won't be able to shake off a slightly dirty and ominous feeling.

---

Re: Tom Wood. Didn't he only make something like 5 tackles in the Wales game at the World Cup? From what I remember, he was a long way short of his normal numbers all tournament.

Jones might simply want players to emphasise their strengths and let him select around their weaknesses.

 

[Peat]

I'm cool with Jones not picking my 23. Obviously mine is better but, like, whatever dog, we all see things different.

It's Jones picking right from my nightmare/proven failure 23 that I don't dig.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Tom Youngs been cited for punching.


Eddie Jones will love that edge now.

 

[spartan32]

Well proof, if indeed proof were needed, that England supporters are a fickle bunch. Sure I would have liked to have seen Daly in there, and I'm not really sure what point Goode serves, but all the lads selected have a great deal of talent a potential. Plus ringing whole sale changes from the start would not have been a sensible approach, exciting maybe, but not sensible, and Jones strikes me as hard nose pragmatist. He did wonders for Japan, a country with no known talents, and now he commands a team with endless pools of it.

He's also made it clear that he wants to settle England's set piece first and foremost. Once that is done he will move into the backs and develop a game plan that they can execute.

England are not, and never will be, a SH side. We will never be throwing the ball around, chucking hitch kicks, and throwing the pill out the back door. What we do have is the potential to beat any team in the world, in our own way. That's what needs to be unlocked. England need to start winning again, by any means possible. Get that done and then maybe we can start looking at making it all pretty for the fair weather punters.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I don't see why it shows people as being fickle IMO.

Maybe pessimistic which is a very English trait (outside of media driven stuff).

Personally I'm pessimistic about it as I have seen teams like this before and they didn't really properly produce.

Now yes Jones is in charge so should be different but you can't blame people for being pessimistic.

 

[Maverick1987]

Well proof, if indeed proof were needed, that England supporters are a fickle bunch. Sure I would have liked to have seen Daly in there, and I'm not really sure what point Goode serves, but all the lads selected have a great deal of talent a potential. Plus ringing whole sale changes from the start would not have been a sensible approach, exciting maybe, but not sensible, and Jones strikes me as hard nose pragmatist. He did wonders for Japan, a country with no known talents, and now he commands a team with endless pools of it.

He's also made it clear that he wants to settle England's set piece first and foremost. Once that is done he will move into the backs and develop a game plan that they can execute.

England are not, and never will be, a SH side. We will never be throwing the ball around, chucking hitch kicks, and throwing the pill out the back door. What we do have is the potential to beat any team in the world, in our own way. That's what needs to be unlocked. England need to start winning again, by any means possible. Get that done and then maybe we can start looking at making it all pretty for the fair weather punters.

With the young backs we have we can definitely play some fast attractive rugby but I think you hit the nail on the head when you talked about Jones getting set piece right first and it appears to me that's exactly what he's doing . He's picked a hooker that can hook and throw . He's picked the locks to work with Hartley too (I believe Lawes and Launch will start vs Scot) and he's picked our best front row that are fit

Aside from Goode and Kvesic I don't think anyone has a huge problem with the squad do they ??

 

[Colombia]

I might have been a little melodramatic (and an Anglo-Saxon nerd) with the first line. I am giving him a chance, but it will still be slightly disheartening if he manages to win the Six Nations using Lancaster's template for two main reasons:

I can't imagine any circumstances in which Jones winning the Six Nations at his first attempt could be considered disheartening. England have won just one trophy in 12 years.

So if he manages to start with an underwhelming team and win, I won't be able to shake off a slightly dirty and ominous feeling.

I wouldn't consider a 6N winning team to be underwhelming either.

I'm not getting at you, there have been a lot of similar comments. Jones can pick my nightmare XV but if the team wins the trophy, then maybe he knows a little bit more about rugby than I do.

 

[YoungScud]

Should ban whoever made that thread ***le.

I was very hungry and the ***le seemed to be misleading me.

At least it wasn't S**t chat I guess. (That happens after the chips).

You think?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

You think?

That's for the Scotland thread.

 

[YoungScud]

That's for the Scotland thread.

No take backs.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

When we hear that Barritt got told he needed to work on his defence, that's when it will have jumped the shark...

edit: Oi! Tony. I wasn't in the believer's club.

To be fair, I know Wood is known for his hard work but those ruck hitting and other stats posted for the England World Cup Squad pretty much showed Wood as being anonymous; not tackling or hitting as many rucks nor turning over as much ball as Robshaw or even Dan Cole from memory! Maybe talking about work rate is just Jones' way of saying you don't do enough and therefore are not good enough!

 

[spartan32]

I've been thinking about it and can't understand what purpose Goode serves?!

As it stands I assume Jones is going for the following
10. Ford
12. Farrell
13. JJ
15. Brown

With Divoto covering 12 from the bench. Now Knowel can cover 13/14/15, Watson can cover wing and 15, and at a push Brown can also cover Wing. But as I see it all Goode can do is 15, and is he really any better at that then Watson? It's not even like he can nudge them over from 50+ meters al la Halfpenny or Daly. Surely Daly on the bench would have been the way to go?

Thoughts anyone,

 

[Crapspray]

I can't imagine any circumstances in which Jones winning the Six Nations at his first attempt could be considered disheartening. England have won just one trophy in 12 years.

It's looking back a realising just how much time and success England will have wasted by employing four bad to average candidates over the last fourteen years. And then wondering what we could have achieved had the RFU bitten the bullet all that time ago.

I'd still get wrecked at the pub and enjoy it along with everyone else, but I'd ask the question a few weeks later.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Well proof, if indeed proof were needed, that England supporters are a fickle bunch. Sure I would have liked to have seen Daly in there, and I'm not really sure what point Goode serves, but all the lads selected have a great deal of talent a potential. Plus ringing whole sale changes from the start would not have been a sensible approach

Whole sale and Wholesale have different meanings here. We do not want "Whole Sale" changes, well except the odd curry chips northerner.

 

[Geordie]

Its very early days for Jones.

But his first impressions seem to be that he agree with the previous coaching team on the actual players (with a few tweaks) , maybe he just thinks changing the tactics will change the 4 second in a rows to 6n ***les.
He may be right.

And im sure many of the yougsters that we want will come in to the 23 at the appriopriate times.

Having said all that, we don't know that this 23 IS the 23 that will face Scotland. One or two of those sent away, like Daly or Itoje or Kvesic may come in.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

To be fair, I know Wood is known for his hard work but those ruck hitting and other stats posted for the England World Cup Squad pretty much showed Wood as being anonymous; not tackling or hitting as many rucks nor turning over as much ball as Robshaw or even Dan Cole from memory! Maybe talking about work rate is just Jones' way of saying you don't do enough and therefore are not good enough!

I think it's the type of work wood was doing or not doing.

As in he needs to work harder to carry the ball, I think he often avoided carrying but was happy to ruck and tackle usually.