England 6N 2016 - General Chit Chat

[Vieux Talonneur]

The other position is a toss up between Kruis and launchbury, whoever is on form at the time maybe.

Totally disagree. It'a question of who plays alongside Kruis. As well as having the modern athletic traits he's also an old fashioned hard hitting, slightly bolshy, pain in the ar*e lock. He was just relentless, my English man of the tournament by a distance; I don't think that I have seen such sustained excellence from an English lock since Johnson.

My choice would be Kruis and Launch with Itoje at 6.

As well as Kruis, Binny was excellent. Others to really impress were Hartley for his leadership and Watson for proving that he's much more than a sprinter - he should move to 15 immediately. A special shout out too for the much maligned Farrell who held his own despite playing out of position.

 

[Zed]

I agree about Watson being the long-term candidate for full back, but I don´t think Lewington will come in on the wing. I think Nowell will continue there until Wade learns to defend better (although he wouldn´t have to defend that much better on last night´s evidence to replace Nowell). At the moment you wouldn´t back either of them against the best in the world. It doesn´t help that they are up against left wingers who are much bigger than them. I think Watson would be able to deal with Savea, etc. better physically, but we need him at full back (unless Swiel eventually comes through at 15). May on the left wing until we can tempt Joe Burgess to come across from league (this might not happen before 2019 either).

What is Watson's defence like?

 

[msf]

Pretty good, I think, he managed okay against North and Nadolo. He is quite a bit bigger than Nowell too, and he has a lot more pace if he makes a mistake with his positioning.

 

[ncurd]

I'll be bitterly disappointed if Kruis and Itoje haven't cemented starting position through the summer and autumn.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

I'll be bitterly disappointed if Kruis and Itoje haven't cemented starting position through the summer and autumn.

Still would like Launchbury to be in there alongside Kruis and for me it's time to phase out Robshaw and Haskell and replace them with Itoje and Clifford. Itoje has to be in the team, but not necessarily at 4.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Would like to see the squad come next 6N's as
1) Marler, Vunipola, Waller
2) Hartley, George, Cowan Dickie
3) Brookes, Cole, Hill,
4/5) Launhcbury, Kruis, Slater/Kitchener/Barrow (Could see barrow being the type of player Jones likes)
6) Itoje, Ewers
7) Clifford, Underhill
8) Vunipola, Beaumont/Hughes
9) Robson, Youngs, Spencer
10) Ford, Faz,
11) Roko, Lewington (hopefully will move to a decent club if irish goes down)
12) Manu, Slade (10 as well)
13) Daly, JJ
14) Nowell, May/Yarde
15) Watson, Brown

That's ATM obviously Injuries and form happens etc.

 

[msf]

I think Itoje to 6 is the most likely change for Australia. Haskell is too important in the defence at the moment. To compete with Australia we need better jacklers/defensive breakdown work though, and since Itoje is the best we have in the squad (apart from Kvesic, who doesn´t seem to be in with a shout) he needs to be given the chance to get over the ball as often as possible. Clifford could replace Haskell, but it would be a big call as he wasn´t even given a start against Italy.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Kvesic obviously isn't favoured by Jones, Underhill will take his spot regardless now.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Wasnt our scrum under big pressure in most games?
Doesn't suggest we have the worlds best tighthead in there

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Wasnt our scrum under big pressure in most games?
Doesn't suggest we have the worlds best tighthead in there

You know White has retired now, so he can't play anymore.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Kvesic obviously isn't favoured by Jones, Underhill will take his spot regardless now.

Underhill has got to play in England before he's selected otherwise we're going to have another Armitage/ exceptional circumstances debate.

 

[ratsapprentice]

No he doesn't, let the people who don't understand the "exceptional circumstances" clause continue to be bemused...

He will be involved with England this summer, I'm sure of it - unless the mooted Saxons tour doesn't go ahead.

 

[msf]

Wasnt our scrum under big pressure in most games?
Doesn't suggest we have the worlds best tighthead in there

Erm, no, it wasn´t. It was the best scrum in the 6 nations (pretty sure the stats would back me up if I could be bothered to find them). And, anyway, if you call that big pressure, what the hell was last autumn against Australia? I think some people are confusing having a stable scrum to attack off with having a bad scrum. Since we have seen Vunipola attack more effectively off the scrum than he ever has before, I would suggest it has worked pretty well.

This is what the All Blacks look to achieve - a stable scrum to attack off. The other approach, scrumming for penalties, is more of a lottery and takes away a prime attacking tool (just look at our first and last tries of this championship).

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The story with Underhill is that because, he went to Wales to go to uni rather than just to play rugby, that will justify using the exceptional circumstances rule.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Erm, no, it wasn´t. It was the best scrum in the 6 nations

I didn't see it like that.
Last night was equal,
2nd best to Wales (and lucky not to get pinged more)
Pretty sure we were equal at best to Ireland,
Can't remember Italy or Scotland.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

No he doesn't, let the people who don't understand the "exceptional circumstances" clause continue to be bemused..

He will be involved with England this summer, I'm sure of it - unless the mooted Saxons tour doesn't go ahead.

Really? Because no-one else seems to understand this rule until it's actively been used and so far it hasn't. So if you would like to enlighten us in this case, please do.

As far as I'm concerned it's speculation until confirmed.

I've watched him a coule of times play for the Ospreys, sometimes at 6 , but also at 7. Great work rate, but still 19 and at university. A transfer to Bath or Exeter this summer would however be welcome if he can combine his studies and playing career and not open this whole "exceptional circumstance" nonsense. Either have a Wallabies style 60 cap rule or do away with it; otherwise it's too arbitrary.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

He's not chasing cash, he moved there for university so is playing for the local side there.
I imagine they've had a conversation where Underhill has said he intends on moving back to England after his degree is done.

 

[msf]

Well, I did, and I´m pretty sure Jones was happy with Cole - why else would he keep him on for the full game?

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

To blame Nowell for the French getting down his wing so much is completely unfair, often the whole defensive line would have rushed out without actually putting pressure on the French and then Nowell was frequently left defending 3-1 and 2-1 situations. If anything it's a credit to him that the French didn't make even more yards down his wing. He was left with no support so many times, it must have been very frustrating. Wade wouldn't have stood a chance, the French would have gone over him repeatedly.

 

[msf]

So they would have gone over him rather than round him? Does that matter? The result is the same, a clean break.

And hardly anyone goes over Wade, although they sometimes bounce him off.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

So they would have gone over him rather than round him? Does that matter? The result is the same, a clean break.

And hardly anyone goes over Wade, although they sometimes bounce him off.

Attackers should always be getting around defenders in 2 on 1's. The point with Wade is they could have gone over him as well as around him. The problems down Nowells wing were not down to Nowell, they were down to England letting him face 2 or 3 attackers completely unsupported and he did a good job nullifying it as much as he did.