England 6 Nation squad 2024

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Yeah that's fair - I do think we'll see an all new front row though, because they're specialist positions they'll need to take reserve props/hooker in case someone pulls out in the warmup

You say that and I kinda agree but that's not something we did for any Six Nations prior to this year. I don't really know what the protocol would be if a front rower was to go down in the warm-up but there must be one since for so many years we travelled without any cover there.

My guess would be that since Scotland isn't exactly the other side of the world the England squad will still travel with the bare 6 front rowers with the A squaders on standby to travel at a moment's notice in the very unlikely event that someone went down. It seems like a risk but like I say, it's essentially what we've done for years now. There'll be some kind of system in place to deal with that eventuality.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Yeah that's true, I forgot we always trimmed down to bare bones because the PRL agreement - was thinking about Prem games where you've got an extra few players who are fully warmed up/kitted with the team on match day

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I've seen all three hookers warm up at twickenham before under SB. Can't remember if it was a six nations or the wc warm up but we definitely had travelling reserves for the entire front row as they also did an 8 vs 6 scrum.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I've seen all three hookers warm up at twickenham before under SB. Can't remember if it was a six nations or the wc warm up but we definitely had travelling reserves for the entire front row as they also did an 8 vs 6 scrum.

If they did an 8 vs 6 scrum it backs up exactly what I'm saying. The 6 would be made up from the 5 bench forwards (making up the front row, 1 lock and the 1 loose forward) +1 TR (filling in as the other lock).

No front front row TRs required. And if there had been other spare forwards there they would have filled in on the flanks to make it 8v8.

Just to clarify a TR is different than a reserve. A TR is someone who isn't in the 23 but travels with the team in case of a short notice injury. I'm obviously not saying we've been travelling to games without front rowers on the bench.

 

[LIONSxv]

Stats have their place. Link below to an article on how Liverpool FC has used analytics and they will also be looking at a data driven approach to take the emotion out of the search for Klopp's replacement.

Data Analytics in football: How LFC Used Data to Gain the Edge - Rockborne - Graduates

Liverpool Football Club's ascent to the pinnacle of English football wasn't just about passion or luck. Behind the loud roars of the Kop and the ceaseless

rockborne.com

But they can only ever be part of the story and the skill is not to be blinded by them.

I agree Statistics and analytics have a big role in elite level sport
The issue that I have is trying to base a game plan based on their use. As opposed to playing what's in front of you and selecting players based on X caps
For example we know both Jones/ Borthwick want the team to kick more based on statistics

We also know that Jones( with Borthwick as assistant) stated that successful teams have X amount of caps

Whilst both statements are probably true they are other teams statistics not this teams.

This is where my issue is, the last 2 years of Eddie and the first two of SB the selection/ game plan is almost mechanical, based on certain statistical assumptions. The players look confused as they are clearly not used to such rigid structures at their own clubs

Fans are even more confused as we have great options in certain positions, yet players are ignored/omitted in favour of players who are unfit (billy) out of form (take your pick) or out of position. Daly been the prime example, however Earl is a brilliant 7 who covers 8 well.

I also suspect we will shoehorn a lock into 6, in the hope that we can copy PSDT or clone Lawes.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

If they did an 8 vs 6 scrum it backs up exactly what I'm saying. The 6 would be made up from the 5 bench forwards (making up the front row, 1 lock and the 1 loose forward) +1 TR (filling in as the other lock).

No front front row TRs required. And if there had been other spare forwards there they would have filled in on the flanks to make it 8v8.

Just to clarify a TR is different than a reserve. A TR is someone who isn't in the 23 but travels with the team in case of a short notice injury. I'm obviously not saying we've been travelling to games without front rowers on the bench.

lol I can't believe I forgot about the bench players (head in hands).

There were definitely three hookers though in one of the games last year but that may have been specific due to a potential injury. Think it was the Scotland 6 nations game from memory.

 

[Rugbyfan564]

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

If they did an 8 vs 6 scrum it backs up exactly what I'm saying. The 6 would be made up from the 5 bench forwards (making up the front row, 1 lock and the 1 loose forward) +1 TR (filling in as the other lock).

No front front row TRs required. And if there had been other spare forwards there they would have filled in on the flanks to make it 8v8.

Just to clarify a TR is different than a reserve. A TR is someone who isn't in the 23 but travels with the team in case of a short notice injury. I'm obviously not saying we've been travelling to games without front rowers on the bench.

Just to confirm on this Obano was at the wales game as a travelling reserve. He is shown on the O2 Inside line in warm up gear.

Not sure if this is actually the standard or if they were worried about Genge.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

LCD, Martin and Manu but no Lawrence in main squad
M.Smith and Lawrence named as walking wounded

Blamire, Beard and Pearson(!) drop out
Guess that confirms that Martin (or Chessum) are going to be used in the backrow, otherwise Ewels would have dropped out

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Just to confirm on this Obano was at the wales game as a travelling reserve. He is shown on the O2 Inside line in warm up gear.

Not sure if this is actually the standard or if they were worried about Genge.

Possibly different rules due to no Prem Games on - don't need to release everyone back to their clubs?

 

[Geordie]

LCD, Martin and Manu but no Lawrence in main squad
M.Smith and Lawrence named as walking wounded

Blamire, Beard and Pearson(!) drop out
Guess that confirms that Martin (or Chessum) are going to be used in the backrow, otherwise Ewels would have dropped out

Does that mean he could be named in the A game squad? Or injured?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Does that mean he could be named in the A game squad? Or injured?

No mention of injury - Six Nations squads are limited to 36 (I think?) so someone had to drop out for Martin, I suppose, just frustrating it wasn't Ewels!

Hope he does get a run in the A game

 

[LIONSxv]

Louis Lynagh confirmed for Italy. I would of been really disappointed 18 months back when he was tearing it up
He hasn't played all that much in the last 12 months and I don't see him as a SB type player. Probably the best outcome for him

 

[higgik]

I miss Attwood and Kruis.

And Launchbury

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

And Launchbury

He's still playing... As is Attwood, actually.

 

[higgik]

Yes, absolutely

Props should be developing at club level not when they're starting for England - if you're not good enough for your club to take Cole's spot off him you shouldn't just be gifted it,
The 2nd/3rd choice options will get game time as no prop plays the full 80, I'd imagine Stuart will probably get a start or two too, it's not a position where no one else gets a crack


Yeah, that's why I want Isiekwe there, by all account he's a massive lynchpin in Saracens scrum

Look at the RWC finalists, both had great front 5s that were workhorses.
Maybe we need to drop Itoje and add more grunt up front.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I personally think Itoje has unbalanced the pack for many years. It's not been his fault and he is too skilled a player to just drop out (when on form) but without having a massive player next to him and some very good props it leaves you light.

Maybe he should have focussed Itoje at 6 years ago and kept at that.

It also seems being above average 'tall' but not giant is quite limiting for rugby at the moment.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I get where you're coming from, but over the course of his career Itoje has been very comfortably our best option at 4 - like who's he been keeping out? Lawes before he went permanently to 6? I guess Chessum shifting to play 5*, but then who would step in to partner Chessum if we'd dropped Itoje, considering he and Martin are rarely fit at the same time - Ewels?

For me the bigger issue is our inability to produce tighthead locks than having one of the best in world at 4


*I know he often wears 5 for Tigers, but he packs down at 4

 

[higgik]

I get where you're coming from, but over the course of his career Itoje has been very comfortably our best option at 4 - like who's he been keeping out? Lawes before he went permanently to 6? I guess Chessum shifting to play 5*, but then who would step in to partner Chessum if we'd dropped Itoje, considering he and Martin are rarely fit at the same time - Ewels?

For me the bigger issue is our inability to produce tighthead locks than having one of the best in world at 4


*I know he often wears 5 for Tigers, but he packs down at 4

I agree that Itoje is a talent, but the lack of a power TH lock, the greater issue.
This also means that we lose some of Itoje's skills etc, in adapting his game.
It also means that we have to pack the BR with bigger lumps, so less breakdown threat, or suffer in contact because of the lack of threat.
It is quite noticeable that the top prem teams all have strong locks, (mainly SA or Arg!!!) to allow the BR to be more mobile, and have a specialist opens idea.
Surely, the team needs balance rather than trying to shoehorn in the best players and see what happens.
Just look at the England Football golden generation where there was a constant battle to get the best players in, at the expense of team balance.

 

[Geordie]

I get where you're coming from, but over the course of his career Itoje has been very comfortably our best option at 4 - like who's he been keeping out? Lawes before he went permanently to 6? I guess Chessum shifting to play 5*, but then who would step in to partner Chessum if we'd dropped Itoje, considering he and Martin are rarely fit at the same time - Ewels?

For me the bigger issue is our inability to produce tighthead locks than having one of the best in world at 4


*I know he often wears 5 for Tigers, but he packs down at 4

100 %!! Kruis was the perfect foil for Itoje. He did the grunt and at 6'6 and 20 stone was a sheer unit. He didnt look it mind, But his lineout was excellent aswell. Thats why so many are hoping George martin can bring that...we've missed one for a while.

With him and a brick at 6, and possibly CCS at 8 suddenly you have the physicality (and still mobilty) to allow Itoje to do his thing.