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England 6 Nation squad 2024

Did Kelly throw a party when Borthwick left Tigers or something? What's he done to fall so far down the pecking order after seemingly being one of Borthwick's top guys?

Haven't had a proper look at the squad yet but no Brantingham or Painter is disappointing. Especially since Iosefa-Scott's there and he's comfortably second choice to Painter at Chiefs.
 
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Had a closer look and these are some of the decisions I can't really wrap my head around:

Haffar > Brantingham - Brantingham is already a regular Prem starter and has proven to be a very good player. Haffar has like 1 Prem start to his name. If Haffar was much younger then I'd understand but they're literally the same age. Haffar is fine but Brantingham is just better.

Iosefa-Scott > Painter - Painter is younger and starts over Iosefa-Scott at Chiefs. He's also actually English and is a vastly superior scrummager.

Englefield > Warr - Englefield is just so average and has like 5 Prem starts to his name while Warr is a regular Prem starter at the same age.

Ma'asi-White > Joseph - again, both very young (same age?) and Joseph is a regular Prem starter while Ma'asi-White is a squad player for Sale. Don't want to discredit Ma'asi-White too much as I think he could grow to be a decent player but over Joseph? Really?

I'm sure there are other things but those are the selections that really stand out to me.

Regardless, you can make a decent enough 23 out of it. If it was me selecting I'd be going:

1. Baxter
2. Blamire
3. Harper
4. Tuima
5. Isiekwe
6. Pearson
7. Pepper
8. Barbeary
9. Randall
10. Atkinson
11. Hassell-Collins
12. Hartley
13. Ma'asi-White
14. Murley
15. Hodge

16. Ruley
17. Haffar
18. Iosefa-Scott
19. Bamber/Clark (honestly haven't seen a huge amount of either)
20. Fisilau
21. Englefield
22. Shillcock
23. Sleightholme
 
I'm surprised Radwan has been overlooked again. I really feel he'd really have more chances in a better performing team. No offence Geordie
 
Feyi Waboso had confirmed his dad is half English and mum is Nigerian and it wouldn't of mattered if he had got into Cardiff uni he still would've joined England which is weird seeing as he was quoted a few months prior to joining England that he wanted to play for Wales and that was long after being rejected by Cardiff uni

Reading between the lines it sounds to me like he just didn't expect to be considered by any nation for international rugby for at least a few years so when the opportunity came along to play for England, and I guess weighing up the balance he needed to strike with his studies, he just went for England.
 
Pretty mental that Joe Batley and Gabriel Ibitoye have been overlooked IMO. Harding must have been close but can understand missing out given so much back row talent. No Warr is inexplicable. Bamber included ahead of so many other locks? Being played in Leicester too. Hmm.
 
Vieux Talonneur said:
Was it? A smallish lock performing well down, still giving away pens, part of a weak scrum, not attacking opposition line out ball and still getting selected? And that was over an extended period.

The difference was that Binny / Youngs were in terminal decline. Itoje wasn't but I'd say was still performing at a similar degree below personal benchmark. Was that better than 'lesser' players coming in and performing, we don't know as he continued to get picked.

Labels get stuck to players, usually unfairly or on the basis of just a few incidents. Mostly these are negative, but sometimes overly positive and I think Itoje has benefited from that to an extent. That said he's worth his place at the moment although he and Chessum aren't balanced as a pair.

Not sure what to make of that A squad.
Click to expand...
Okay your not a fan of Itoje because he is small. Who would you of replaced him with during 2019-23 period?
You cant include Isekwe as he has been injured/unwell for a big chunk of that period.
 
It's an interesting mix of players who are very good right now and some with great potential. While there will always be differences of opinion about some players (Mercer being the best example) I'm quite excited to see what a team made up from these players could do. I do fear it might be diluted if players from the full squad like Extremely Worrying English Lock/Six get a game...
 
LIONSxv said:
Okay your not a fan of Itoje because he is small. Who would you of replaced him with during 2019-23 period?
You cant include Isekwe as he has been injured/unwell for a big chunk of that period.
Click to expand...

None of us can remember exactly who was available or in form when. But many of us here over a longish period were calling for Itoje to be given some bench time, almost certainly more short sharp shock than looking for a long term replacement.

Launch and Attwood (who played some great rugby in that time) were disposed of too early. I also called for Lawes to go back in the row - he's not your TH lock but he'd have made a good enough fist of the athletic one. Isiekwe's had a rough year, not sure his injury record was too bad before that?
 
Apparently a few players in many sqauds are having minor surgery etc whilst the break is on so maybe that might explain why some odd names?

But disappointed no Radwan...do Egypt have a team?
 
Vieux Talonneur said:
None of us can remember exactly who was available or in form when. But many of us here over a longish period were calling for Itoje to be given some bench time, almost certainly more short sharp shock than looking for a long term replacement.

Launch and Attwood (who played some great rugby in that time) were disposed of too early. I also called for Lawes to go back in the row - he's not your TH lock but he'd have made a good enough fist of the athletic one. Isiekwe's had a rough year, not sure his injury record was too bad before that?
Click to expand...
Together, they would get decimated at the line out. Isekwe has had terrible injuries for the last WC cycle
In essence their wasn't anybody better at the time
 
When it comes to the locks I think we have lots of athletic locks not so many powerful tighthead locks...with intelligence.
George Martin the hope..maybe Rus Tuima...but he's only 6'5 aswell isn't he?
Nz were lucky they had two monsters who were fabulous players and SA have a number of huge guys come through at the same time. And Australia have some huge guys aswell.

if your looking for huge guys...your really waiting to see what kids can develop. There's quite a few of them..but most seem athletic rather than the monster tighthead lock....and it's not gonig to be immediate either....

Alfie Bell 6'8 seemingly dropped off the cliff after moving to Exeter.

Tigers have a few lads at 6'9 to 6'11 Lewis Chessum probably the best known...but he's only played about 3 games this season that I can see...in the prem Cup.

Ben Bamber is getting quite a few games at Sale..in the Euros aswell and he's a unit..6'9 about 20 stone.

But atm your probably looking at

Lh lock
Chessum v Itoje v Coles
TH Lock
Martin v Tuima (depending on how he comtinues)

But add in Underhill, And potentially CCS, Barbeary then maybe the whole pack takes on a more physical look.
 
Pieter Steph du Teague said:
Had a closer look and these are some of the decisions I can't really wrap my head around:

Haffar > Brantingham - Brantingham is already a regular Prem starter and has proven to be a very good player. Haffar has like 1 Prem start to his name. If Haffar was much younger then I'd understand but they're literally the same age. Haffar is fine but Brantingham is just better.

Iosefa-Scott > Painter - Painter is younger and starts over Iosefa-Scott at Chiefs. He's also actually English and is a vastly superior scrummager.

Englefield > Warr - Englefield is just so average and has like 5 Prem starts to his name while Warr is a regular Prem starter at the same age.

Ma'asi-White > Joseph - again, both very young (same age?) and Joseph is a regular Prem starter while Ma'asi-White is a squad player for Sale. Don't want to discredit Ma'asi-White too much as I think he could grow to be a decent player but over Joseph? Really?

I'm sure there are other things but those are the selections that really stand out to me.

Regardless, you can make a decent enough 23 out of it. If it was me selecting I'd be going:

1. Baxter
2. Blamire
3. Harper
4. Tuima
5. Isiekwe
6. Pearson
7. Pepper
8. Barbeary
9. Randall
10. Atkinson
11. Hassell-Collins
12. Hartley
13. Ma'asi-White
14. Murley
15. Hodge

16. Ruley
17. Haffar
18. Iosefa-Scott
19. Bamber/Clark (honestly haven't seen a huge amount of either)
20. Fisilau
21. Englefield
22. Shillcock
23. Sleightholme
Click to expand...
Yeah, some weirdness here for sure.

I assumed that Englefield, Clark, Blake and Clement were beneficiaries of Skivington being the coach, but that doesn't explain why Seb Atkinson would be absent? Blake looked very interesting when he got a bit of a run of games for Gloucester, but he's barely featured recently. Clark has looked promising but I'm surprised he's above Hammond who has played well all season. Skivington sent him out on loan recently too. Clement? OK player but given how many good back row players we have, there's no way he should be near this squad.

Definitely a head scratcher not to see the players you've mentioned. The other odd omission for me is Painter. No Evans is disappointing and Batley is probably a bit unfortunate but looking at the age profile of the squad, it does seem like that may have counted against them.

With only 2 centres named, I'm assuming Beard and/or Ojomoh will be brought in? Not sure why they've disappeared from both squads though?

A poster on another forum made a good point re. Kelly - could he be aiming to re-qualify for Ireland?
 

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