England 2024/25

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

TBH I'm all in favour of scrapping it. I simply want the best national team….and the stronger that it is, the more the wider game benefits.

Central contracts mean top players will play for their clubs less anyhow. Plus with our player base, squad sizes and only 10 Prem teams a few losses should be easily absorbed and give chances to new talent. Plus as we've seen with Willis and are seeing with Sinckler playing in a different environment may well improve or reinvigorate them.

Realistically the only overseas option is France and that's not a total free for all as there are limits on the number of overseas players they can play.

This can also be controlled by the back door - "play where you like but to be considered for England you have to be available for X training days / weeks and play no more than Y club matches". X and Y being numbers that would be totally unpalatable to French clubs.

Disagree I feel you change the rules then Japan will come looking for a lot more also

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Disagree I feel you change the rules then Japan will come looking for a lot more also

Very likely, but the distance, season timing (starts Dec or later) and standard there would rule players out of England contention. What I meant is that France would realistically be the only country that players could go to and continue with England aspirations.

 

[Geordie]

Well having watched him play he would only be a winger IMO which as you say isn't a priority. If it were, I'd rather have Arundell back - at least he wouldn't have the adaptation of a code switch.

Yeah but im not sure we should be rushing to bring anyone in now for a huge fee.

The spots we're crying out for we now have green shoots of hope.

Tighthead - Stuarts actually improving, then Fordjour and Fasogabon are developing nicely. Hopefully Sella also after his injury
No.8 - Willis is making plenty of noise with his performances, and CCS could well move over from 6. Earl as a stop gap has been very good but should only be a stop gap
9 - Mitchel out on his own, but players like Porter at quins are starting to come through
12 - Atkinson and Hartley should tour to Argentina in the summer.

Its a patience game imo...these lads (and theres plenty of others) need prem and European gametime to develop.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Yeah but im not sure we should be rushing to bring anyone in now for a huge fee.

That's up to the clubs though, unless the RFU are offering a central contract (zero chance) they're not involved in club recruitment

 

[TRF_Olyy]

England A vs France A announced for June

 

[Which Tyler]

England A vs France A announced for June

Now that, I like!

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Now that, I like!

Yep. Getting picky I'd prefer it on the 6N weekend, but definitely a step in the right direction.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Yep. Getting picky I'd prefer it on the 6N weekend, but definitely a step in the right direction.

We're playing Ireland A during the 6N

Think the plan is one per international window - guessing it's easier to keep the Clubs on board if it's just a week that they're missing the extra players

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Its a patience game imo...these lads (and theres plenty of others) need prem and European gametime to develop.

Totally do. But elite sport's about the here and now.

France invested a lot in youth and sacrificed results with their home RWC solely in mind. Brilliant generation of players, yet they did an Ireland in the RWC and have only won one 6N ***le in forever (although expect them to add next year).

Potential's great and exciting…..and often unfulfilled.

We're definitely lacking a couple of players who regularly stand up and grab games by the scruff of the neck. Hesitate to name check Dupont as he dines at the very top table, but it's that kind of thing. If we haven't got them we haven't got them, but with our player base the question then becomes why.

 

[Which Tyler]

We're playing Ireland A during the 6N

Think the plan is one per international window - guessing it's easier to keep the Clubs on board if it's just a week that they're missing the extra players

No meaningful clashes during the international windows now though

 

[Geordie]

Totally do. But elite sport's about the here and now.

France invested a lot in youth and sacrificed results with their home RWC solely in mind. Brilliant generation of players, yet they did an Ireland in the RWC and have only won one 6N ***le in forever (although expect them to add next year).

Potential's great and exciting…..and often unfulfilled.

We're definitely lacking a couple of players who regularly stand up and grab games by the scruff of the neck. Hesitate to name check Dupont as he dines at the very top table, but it's that kind of thing. If we haven't got them we haven't got them, but with our player base the question then becomes why.

Ah i dont disagree with that VT. I dont want us building solely for the World Cup. I want us challenging for 6ns, and winning AI grand slams.

The world cup should take care of itself.

But the kids are a season away from really being ready to come in as squad members, maybe benchers, so we have to introduce them gradually...

We have very few players at the moment who can really take a game by the scruff of the neck themselves. Marcus Smith, Earl, Underhill, Itoje....but even those are few and far between,.

 

[Geordie]

England A vs France A announced for June

Plus a 3 test tour of Argentina (x 2) and USA (x 1)

Should give the young hopefuls a good bit of exposure.

Who would you like to see on that tour?

 

[mikebrownsauce1512]

Plus a 3 test tour of Argentina (x 2) and USA (x 1)

Should give the young hopefuls a good bit of exposure.

Who would you like to see on that tour?

Will Porter

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Plus a 3 test tour of Argentina (x 2) and USA (x 1)

Should give the young hopefuls a good bit of exposure.

Who would you like to see on that tour?

For the A matches, genuinely the next identified cabs off the rank, irrespective of age. If they're 20 then fine, if they're 28 then also fine. Surely those ought to be about nothing else than continuity to the senior set up. No point in worrying about what might happen 3 years down the line.

The senior squad will have at least 2 per position and using a similar rationale for the A you're going down to 4th choice. If you're not at that level yet, you shouldn't be picked regardless of potential. Make players force their way in through performance. If the kids are good enough they'll get in.

For the summer, the squad will be weakened, but we should simply take the strongest squad available and from that field our best team v Arg. USA can be looked at as more of an A fixture.

 

[Geordie]

For the A matches, genuinely the next identified cabs off the rank, irrespective of age. If they're 20 then fine, if they're 28 then also fine. Surely those ought to be about nothing else than continuity to the senior set up. No point in worrying about what might happen 3 years down the line.

The senior squad will have at least 2 per position and using a similar rationale for the A you're going down to 4th choice. If you're not at that level yet, you shouldn't be picked regardless of potential. Make players force their way in through performance. If the kids are good enough they'll get in.

For the summer, the squad will be weakened, but we should simply take the strongest squad available and from that field our best team v Arg. USA can be looked at as more of an A fixture.

I cant see many being picked on the lions tour, and if not then the likes of Jamie George, Tom Curry should not travel in my opinion, but if they are on central contracts then they most likely will.

 

[BPM]

I think the Autumn raised quite a lot of questions regarding the Lions and a lot will depend on the 6N.

Ireland didn't look anywhere near as dominant as they have in recent years and it'll be interesting to see how they go in the 6N without Farrell around.

A year ago, I'd have probably said it would be 12 Irishmen, a couple of Scotsmen* and a token Englishman. I don't think it will be now.

I could see us having a good few in the squad, but I think only Itoje, Smith, IFW and possibly Willis or Earl have a shot at the starting XV. CCS might be a dark horse if he can improve his fitness.

*I struggle to call DVDM Scottish

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I cant see many being picked on the lions tour, and if not then the likes of Jamie George, Tom Curry should not travel in my opinion, but if they are on central contracts then they most likely will.

If there genuine individual reasons to rest players such as T Curry, then fine. But otherwise younger ones are much better introduced into a recognisable senior team and, as far as possible, into a winning set up.

 

[BPM]

For the A matches, genuinely the next identified cabs off the rank, irrespective of age. If they're 20 then fine, if they're 28 then also fine. Surely those ought to be about nothing else than continuity to the senior set up. No point in worrying about what might happen 3 years down the line.

The senior squad will have at least 2 per position and using a similar rationale for the A you're going down to 4th choice. If you're not at that level yet, you shouldn't be picked regardless of potential. Make players force their way in through performance. If the kids are good enough they'll get in.

For the summer, the squad will be weakened, but we should simply take the strongest squad available and from that field our best team v Arg. USA can be looked at as more of an A fixture.

Obviously a lot depends on Lions selection.

Here's how I see it:

Very likely: Itoje, M. Smith, Earl, IFW

Possible: Martin, Chessum, Underhill, T. Curry, J. Willis, CCS, Mitchell, Lawrence, Furbank, **Farrell**

Outside shot: Genge, George, Slade, Freeman, Marchant, Sleightholme

A good 6N could move any of the possibles/outside shots into real contention. Injuries will definitely play a part too.

So for the Argentina tour, there will likely be very good opportunities for Fin Smith and Tom Willis to start. A lock too, whoever that may be.

If Mitchell goes, I'd like to see Porter get a shot.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I think the Autumn raised quite a lot of questions regarding the Lions and a lot will depend on the 6N.

Ireland didn't look anywhere near as dominant as they have in recent years and it'll be interesting to see how they go in the 6N without Farrell around.

A year ago, I'd have probably said it would be 12 Irishmen, a couple of Scotsmen* and a token Englishman. I don't think it will be now.

I could see us having a good few in the squad, but I think only Itoje, Smith, IFW and possibly Willis or Earl have a shot at the starting XV. CCS might be a dark horse if he can improve his fitness.

*I struggle to call DVDM Scottish

TBH I could easily see a scenario where Itoje is our only starter. Underhill and Willis the next most likely for me. IFW possibly. Earl's likely to behind the captain in Doris and it's hard to see Smith picked ahead of Russell.

Another dark horse might be Mitchell. Not sure JGP's quite where he was.

But as you say, 6N form tends to be the deciding factor.

 

[Geordie]

If there genuine individual reasons to rest players such as T Curry, then fine. But otherwise younger ones are much better introduced into a recognisable senior team and, as far as possible, into a winning set up.

I dont dispute that, and its essential that youngsters come in to a settled team. But why flog Tom Curry, why take Jamie George when you have Cowan Dickie and Langdon outperforming him. The likes of Ellis Genge will travel but i honestly think his days in the England squad are numbered