England 2024/25

[Rugbyfan564]

How England’s players rated across the Autumn Internationals

Marcus Smith burnished his reputation but some of his England colleagues appear to have gone backwards

www.telegraph.co.uk

Genge - 6
Baxter - 5
George - 6
Cowan - Dickie - 6
Dan - 5
Cole - 5
Stuart - 7
Opoku-Fordjour- 6
Itoje - 7
Martin - 5
Isiekwe - 5
T Curry - 6
Cunningham-South - 6
Underhill - 7
Earl - 6
Dombrandt - 6
B Curry - 6
Spencer - 6
van Poortvliet - 6
Randall - 6
M Smith - 8
Ford - 5
F Smith - 6
Slade - 5
Lawerence - 6
Freeman - 7
Sleightholme - 6
Feyi - Waboso - 7
Roebuck - 6
Furbank - 6
Steward - 6

 

[Crash Hamster]

How England’s players rated across the Autumn Internationals

Marcus Smith burnished his reputation but some of his England colleagues appear to have gone backwards

www.telegraph.co.uk

Genge - 6
Baxter - 5
George - 6
Cowan - Dickie - 6
Dan - 5
Cole - 5
Stuart - 7
Opoku-Fordjour- 6
Itoje - 7
Martin - 5
Isiekwe - 5
T Curry - 6
Cunningham-South - 6
Underhill - 7
Earl - 6
Dombrandt - 6
B Curry - 6
Spencer - 6
van Poortvliet - 6
Randall - 6
M Smith - 8
Ford - 5
F Smith - 6
Slade - 5
Lawerence - 6
Freeman - 7
Sleightholme - 6
Feyi - Waboso - 7
Roebuck - 6
Furbank - 6
Steward - 6

So everyone apart from Marcus Smith (8) scored a 5, 6 or 7...

Going to have to feed the article through 12ft and see if they have anything more useful to say...


Edit: not really, no.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

So, I think we're generally underwhelmed, but on to the 6N.

Ire and Fra first up. Ire in Dublin will be hell bent on revenge. A Fra team with all their stars should be too good for us. Sco at HQ used to be a gimme but we haven't beaten them there since 2017 and have lost the last 4 Calcutta Cups, only winning once in the last 7. Ita away would be a real banana skin but we should just about be OK at home. And if ever Wal are going to win a match, you just know….

Really don't know what to expect. I think the RFU expect 4 wins, but that's hard to see.

 

[Geordie]

Too many haven't come out of this autumn with a positive vibe. Even Marcus Smith has a question mark about what the hell we do with him...as genuinely Fin Smith looks a better bet for the 10 spot. But Marcus's game breaking is just too good.

Even Ben Earl has lost any credits in the bank this Autumn. He's been poor.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I've come out of this tournament with Marcus as my firm first choice tbh,
Was questioning whether it should be Fin before but I'm happy with him in the 22 shirt for the 6N to come

Keep Ford in the squad as a mentor/assistant coach/match day waterboy

Real missed opportunity not to look at another 8 this series - Earl has a ton of credit in the bank but this series I think the best you could say of him was that he was anonymous

 

[Booboobang]

So, I think we're generally underwhelmed, but on to the 6N.

Ire and Fra first up. Ire in Dublin will be hell bent on revenge. A Fra team with all their stars should be too good for us. Sco at HQ used to be a gimme but we haven't beaten them there since 2017 and have lost the last 4 Calcutta Cups, only winning once in the last 7. Ita away would be a real banana skin but we should just about be OK at home. And if ever Wal are going to win a match, you just know….

Really don't know what to expect. I think the RFU expect 4 wins, but that's hard to see

The most borthwick outcome would be beating ireland to raise hopes and then lose out till wales to end on a 'high' with promise that things will be fixed in the next window, the selling of an ireland win and a big win to finish of to let the RFU carry it on for the forseeable.

In reality, Ireland and France are likely losses but the way we play everyone plays down to it and everything is a one score game so who knows, scotland a 50:50 other two should be wins but both almost took our scalp this year.

Nothing from this november is promising to me, attack is still pants, defense has regressed, no new players to point to as making a change, squad is relatively old and very experienced in terms of caps so not really sure where the turning point is coming.

 

[Booboobang]

Too many haven't come out of this autumn with a positive vibe. Even Marcus Smith has a question mark about what the hell we do with him...as genuinely Fin Smith looks a better bet for the 10 spot. But Marcus's game breaking is just too good.

Even Ben Earl has lost any credits in the bank this Autumn. He's been poor.

While the attack is so non existant you cannot afford to drop marcus, he is the only one anything somewhat bright came from.

 

[McTallshort]

The only real concern I have is the front row and lack of depth but otherwise it's been an entertaining autumn. I never really expected England to beat SA, I was hoping for wins against NZ and Australia but were only a couple of points out so I'm not too concerned. Think losing the defence and conditioning coach has caused some disruption and am I right in saying that the defence coach Borthwick brought in was coaching in the lower french leagues?

The RFU have to stick with Borthwick because they paid enough to get him in and Eddie out and I don't want to see more money taken from grassroots projects just to fund another coach.

Quietly confident going into the 6N. Hopefully take either Ireland or France and I'm desperate for the Calcutta cup so let's see.

 

[BPM]

Too many haven't come out of this autumn with a positive vibe. Even Marcus Smith has a question mark about what the hell we do with him...as genuinely Fin Smith looks a better bet for the 10 spot. But Marcus's game breaking is just too good.

Even Ben Earl has lost any credits in the bank this Autumn. He's been poor.

What in a 30min cameo vs. a Japan side that was already 5 tries down?

Let's be sensible here. His pass for Roebuck's first break and the cross field kick for the try were both very nice, but I'd say that's the first time he's really made any impact for England.

It's a nice problem to have but Marcus has earned his spot. If Fin can keep doing what he did today then it's a conversation for the future.

 

[AlRums]

Eddie Jones quiz: What do you remember of former England rugby head coach's time in charge?

England come up against former boss Eddie Jones when they face Japan on Sunday, but how much do you remember about his time in charge?

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[BPM]

The most borthwick outcome would be beating ireland to raise hopes and then lose out till wales to end on a 'high' with promise that things will be fixed in the next window, the selling of an ireland win and a big win to finish of to let the RFU carry it on for the forseeable.

In reality, Ireland and France are likely losses but the way we play everyone plays down to it and everything is a one score game so who knows, scotland a 50:50 other two should be wins but both almost took our scalp this year.

Nothing from this november is promising to me, attack is still pants, defense has regressed, no new players to point to as making a change, squad is relatively old and very experienced in terms of caps so not really sure where the turning point is coming.

I feel similar. I'm optimistic about the next batch of players coming through but not about the England set up.

I don't necessarily see us getting worse, but unless something changes, it feels like we will just continue at the level we are. Capable of the odd result, but ultimately not able to consistently beat the top sides.

 

[Geordie]

What in a 30min cameo vs. a Japan side that was already 5 tries down?

Let's be sensible here. His pass for Roebuck's first break and the cross field kick for the try were both very nice, but I'd say that's the first time he's really made any impact for England.

It's a nice problem to have but Marcus has earned his spot. If Fin can keep doing what he did today then it's a conversation for the future.

At the moment it is Marcus shirt and to be fair he made several try saving tackles as well. Marcus deserves a shot with a decent attacking plan and a 12...but I think Fin may take the 10 shirt and Marcus doing a Barrett and moving to 15..though the kicking rule change might put a block on that...

We'll see how it goes in time.

 

[Saintjay]

The most borthwick outcome would be beating ireland to raise hopes and then lose out till wales to end on a 'high' with promise that things will be fixed in the next window, the selling of an ireland win and a big win to finish of to let the RFU carry it on for the forseeable.

In reality, Ireland and France are likely losses but the way we play everyone plays down to it and everything is a one score game so who knows, scotland a 50:50 other two should be wins but both almost took our scalp this year.

Nothing from this november is promising to me, attack is still pants, defense has regressed, no new players to point to as making a change, squad is relatively old and very experienced in terms of caps so not really sure where the turning point is coming.

Aren't we one of the younger squads with an average age of 25. Dan Cole bumps it up 247 years.

 

[Lé Ddanno]

I've come out of this tournament with Marcus as my firm first choice tbh,
Was questioning whether it should be Fin before but I'm happy with him in the 22 shirt for the 6N to come

Keep Ford in the squad as a mentor/assistant coach/match day waterboy

Real missed opportunity not to look at another 8 this series - Earl has a ton of credit in the bank but this series I think the best you could say of him was that he was anonymous

Earl only has credit by virtue of being our only standout player in the 6n. He's been totally useless this series - not all his fault because there wasn't enough tight carrying, but he was dicking up at the back of the scrum and grabbing restarts as well. Needs to go find form.

 

[BPM]

I've come out of this tournament with Marcus as my firm first choice tbh,
Was questioning whether it should be Fin before but I'm happy with him in the 22 shirt for the 6N to come

Keep Ford in the squad as a mentor/assistant coach/match day waterboy

Real missed opportunity not to look at another 8 this series - Earl has a ton of credit in the bank but this series I think the best you could say of him was that he was anonymous

100% agree on all of the above. I'm a big fan of Dombrandt's but he's a wasted pick for England. He's not going to be the starter and he doesn't seem to add any impact from the bench. What's more, he didn't really deserve the call up having only featured twice for Quins so far this season. How/why Tom Willis didn't get the nod is beyond me. Great form and a skill set that would be so useful for this England team.

Some other observations …

1) Underhill showed he should start if he's fit and available. He's always been great without the ball but his attacking game has improved a lot and he is never less than very good. Simply put, we look a better team when he's there.

2) Defensive positioning around the ruck seems to be a big problem. Genge, George and Martin were all caught napping. That's nothing to do with a blitz defence and TBH, not even anything to do with El Abd. Amateur players would be called out for those kind of basic errors. It happened in every game and those three were repeat offenders. Unforgivable at this level IMO.

3) George is nearing the end of his run. Given leadership is a concern for us in the final quarter and LCD seems to be (mostly) back in form, I wonder whether switching the 2 and 16 shirts might have some merit? George is never going to be an impact sub, but he might be the kind of calm head we need to see out tight games. A bit like Mealamu used to do for NZ. Obviously that raises the question of who steps in as skipper for the first 50 or so, but I think it's worth considering.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

100% agree on all of the above. I'm a big fan of Dombrandt's but he's a wasted pick for England. He's not going to be the starter and he doesn't seem to add any impact from the bench. What's more, he didn't really deserve the call up having only featured twice for Quins so far this season. How/why Tom Willis didn't get the nod is beyond me. Great form and a skill set that would be so useful for this England team.

Some other observations …

1) Underhill showed he should start if he's fit and available. He's always been great without the ball but his attacking game has improved a lot and he is never less than very good. Simply put, we look a better team when he's there.

2) Defensive positioning around the ruck seems to be a big problem. Genge, George and Martin were all caught napping. That's nothing to do with a blitz defence and TBH, not even anything to do with El Abd. Amateur players would be called out for those kind of basic errors. It happened in every game and those three were repeat offenders. Unforgivable at this level IMO.

3) George is nearing the end of his run. Given leadership is a concern for us in the final quarter and LCD seems to be (mostly) back in form, I wonder whether switching the 2 and 16 shirts might have some merit? George is never going to be an impact sub, but he might be the kind of calm head we need to see out tight games. A bit like Mealamu used to do for NZ. Obviously that raises the question of who steps in as skipper for the first 50 or so, but I think it's worth considering.

Agree with all that.

Don't know who to replace George as captain though. I'm kind of getting the vibe that E Jones was right about Itoje.

On the defence. There have been individual lapses and the change in coaches can't have helped. But another aspect may be the shift towards higher scoring games in the Prem where the general emphasis *seems* to be more on scoring tries and entertaining than guarding your line at all costs. Might work against Bristol but unlikely to work against the Boks. Shifting a mindset from what you do week in, week out, is a big deal and maybe F Jones was starting to work minor miracles which may explain why SB seems so hacked off with him. I've always had certain sympathy with E Jones view that the Prem doesn't brilliantly prepare players for the international game.

 

[BPM]

Possibly, but that would only hold water if our club sides were miles adrift in European competitions. So far they haven't been.

There were obvious disconnects with the blitz, most notably between Slade and the back three. That's a system related failure. Missing first up tackles and not covering the fringes around the ruck are basic player-level failures. El Abd has to carry the can as defence coach and he is at fault if the systems are not working but I genuinely don't think those individual lapses are his fault.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I actually thought Marcus Smith failed to get the centres and other players into the game. For all the good he did I really don't think he clicked at all in the England team.

Not sure if that's a system thing or just the way he plays. I think it's only fair that F Smith gets a shot in a proper game as he's a brilliant player.