England 2024/25

[Which Tyler]

Ultimately though, this is a results business, and I can't help compare this year to the year that got Eddie fired.

Just thought I'd have a look at the year that got the other "recent" coaches fired.

Eddie Jones: as above.

Stuart Lancaster: Was the world cup performance and confusion, rather than the year as a whole, but:
2015:
W: 8, D: 0, L: 4
6N: 2nd place
RWC: W: 2, L: 2 - crashed out at the group stage

Martin Johnson:
2011: W: 10, D: 0, L: 3
6N: 1st place
RWC: W: 4, L: 1 - 4th place

Brian Ashton:
2007/8: W: 9, D: 0, L: 8
SI: W: 0, L: 2 in South Africa
RWC: W: 5, L: 2 - 2nd place
6N: 2nd place

Andy Robinson:
2006: W: 3, D: 0, L: 8
6N: 4th place
SI: W: 0, L: 2 in Australia
AI: W v SA, L: 3 v NZ, Arg & SA

 

[Rugbyfan564]

 

[BPM]

Genuine question - why does everyone hate Sweeney? I get that the RFU regularly looks incompetent, but what's the personal ire with Sweeney in particular?

To be clear, I am not defending him, I'd just like to know what he's actually done apart from being a bit crap. I genuinely don't know.

 

[LIONSxv]

This is huge tbh, in normal circumstances weight is proportional to strength, but this kid is just a freak where he folds people despite giving up weight. Sometimes there are just exceptions.

I disagree that weight equals strength. Yes it's definite factor however muscle mass and acceleration are just as big. If weight was the presiding factor Unai Untonio would be the best TH to have ever played the game.

In fact his prowess at scrum time is far less than someone like Nche who gives him 30kg start.

Tony Woodcock who I rate as the best of the last 20 years was around 19 stone. Many were far bigger, then we have Nicolas Mas who was always 10-15 kg lighter than his counterparts.

 

[Reiser99]

Just thought I'd have a look at the year that got the other "recent" coaches fired.

Eddie Jones: as above.

Stuart Lancaster: Was the world cup performance and confusion, rather than the year as a whole, but:
2015:
W: 8, D: 0, L: 4
6N: 2nd place
RWC: W: 2, L: 2 - crashed out at the group stage

Martin Johnson:
2011: W: 10, D: 0, L: 3
6N: 1st place
RWC: W: 4, L: 1 - 4th place

Brian Ashton:
2007/8: W: 9, D: 0, L: 8
SI: W: 0, L: 2 in South Africa
RWC: W: 5, L: 2 - 2nd place
6N: 2nd place

Andy Robinson:
2006: W: 3, D: 0, L: 8
6N: 4th place
SI: W: 0, L: 2 in Australia
AI: W v SA, L: 3 v NZ, Arg & SA

Slight issue with the comparison is that Ashton, Johnson and Lancaster all left after a WC which is relatively normal. Only direct comparison for leaving mid cycle would be Robinson and Jones.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Funny that Johnson, Lancaster and Ashston can all get England to a 2nd 6 nations finish and yet SB can't.

Lots of people in the press call for SBs head but lots of ex players and rugby specific journalists and podcasts all saying we arnt that far away.

Guessing a loss to Japan would seal his fate or another 4th place finish come the 6 nations. Just don't get the impression SB can grow and change. Feels like we failed against all three SH teams and he doesn't know why.

Hope I'm wrong though.

 

[BPM]

This is the danger of using an isolated data point without context though. Ireland and Scotland are all much better teams than they were under all three and France are definitely better now than they were during Johnson and Lancaster's tenures. That's only slightly countered by Wales being much worse.

 

[Reiser99]

For me, I'm going to leave my final judgement on the Autumn until after the Japan game. For me Japan not even a must win. I want to see a good England performance and I'll especially be focusing on defence.

Excuses are not good enough at this point and suggesting it is just fitness or needing time to learn is a dangerous way of thinking. I don't think SB knows how to solve these problems, though better selection would be a good start.

England need a good performance against Japan to convince me there is any hope of an improvement coming.

 

[BrokenWing]

Nothing England do against Japan will be an indication of where England are at, that should have come in the three previous games.

They are on a hiding to nothing.