England 2024/25

[BPM]

I'm a big fan of Marcus but I just can't see a world where Borthwick let's him play his game at 10, and I think Finn is the better(/more consistent) of the two at the controlling kind of game Borthwick will enforce on the side

You could be right but this makes me very sad.

I really rate Fin and if we're looking for a 'controlling' type of 10 it's more his natural game, but IMO Marcus is one of the most talented players in the NH whose game management is underrated.

We should be building our gameplan around him not benching him because we want to be conservative.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

You could be right but this makes me very sad.

I really rate Fin and if we're looking for a 'controlling' type of 10 it's more his natural game, but IMO Marcus is one of the most talented players in the NH whose game management is underrated.

We should be building our gameplan around him not benching him because we want to be conservative.

Don't disagree that Marcus smith is one of the most natural playmakers England have had


But let's not act like Finn Smith is solely a conservative option. Saints play just as beautiful rugby as Quins

 

[BPM]

He's not, but at his point in time if it's a question of who is the better player, I think it's unequivocally Marcus.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I think there is a debate to be had.
Granted always a case of one season wonder potentially. But Finn Smith was performing in a terrible Worcester side.

I certainly think a debate is to be had.

Watch Ford get the start

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Ford and M Smith are both quite brave in defence but F Smith is the most naturally physical of the 3.

Decision made.

 

[BPM]

Precisely … if we're picking 10s on physicality, our selection criteria is wildly flawed.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Also the factor of Mitchell and Finn playing together for club has got to be a consideration.

 

[BPM]

I think there is a debate to be had.
Granted always a case of one season wonder potentially. But Finn Smith was performing in a terrible Worcester side.

I certainly think a debate is to be had.

Watch Ford get the start

Well that depends whether the debate is based upon facts and data or opinion.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

.

Well that depends whether the debate is based upon facts and data or opinion.

It's got to be both. As long as 'Smith' is on the back of the shirt I'll be happy enough.

Chat on another thread about Dan's defence. Set piece basics not yet mastered either. Lots of potential etc but in all honesty the guy shouldn't be near the England squad yet. George and LCD are a long way ahead.

 

[BPM]

Harsh. His defence needs work, but as a third choice hooker, I think it's a good idea to have him there to develop. I think he has the potential to be very good.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Well that depends whether the debate is based upon facts and data or opinion.

Calm down Borthwick!

 

[BPM]

Data isn't the enemy as long as you're looking at the right data points.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

If you don't have a spreadsheet when coaching, are you really coaching?

=if(ball_kicked,WIN,LOSE)

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Also Kelly requalifies for Ireland after this season.
Is this a potential worry? He's starting to regain his pre injury form.

I don't think he would give up England just yet but I can see him being perfect for Munster or if he gives it until after Lions Henshaw's replacement at Leinster.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Yeah that is a worry,
3 years is way too short a time for nation switching, should be 5

He's not looked quite right since his latest injury but did look good vs Leinster - if he's fully fit and on form he's still my first choice 12 of the options, hopefully he can maintain this resurgence

12. Kelly, 13. Ojomoh in the A game?

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Harsh. His defence needs work, but as a third choice hooker, I think it's a good idea to have him there to develop. I think he has the potential to be very good.

Maybe, but so's the international game. If someone's got weaknesses that show up at club level they're going to get doubly exposed at the top level.

A point of difference is great at international level, but more important is doing the right thing time after time. Among others that means making tackles and for a hooker nailing line outs neither of which Dan has.

He got fast tracked as there weren't many other options but LCD is now back. His lack of game time in the RWC said all you need to know about what Borthwick really thought.

He may well be one for the future but right now I think he'd be better served properly learning his craft away from the international arena. He's not so good that we absolutely must have him involved before he's ready.

 

[BPM]

If it were up to me, I'd have picked George, McGuigan and Langdon with Dan starting in the A game. However, I don't think his development points are the out and out weaknesses you're painting them as and I don't think having him as the likely 3rd choice is a big risk.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

England's pre-6N camp is gonna be in Girona, which I'm pretty sure is where teams go to do a high altitude camp in the pyrenees

Think how far the kicks will go in the thin air!

 

[higgik]

Yeah exactly what you want as an 8...not a six. A six is your workhorse, hitting every ruck. He hits hard and carries well, but I don't see the work rate you need as a six

Surely the number doesn't matter, the blend of the back 5 is the most important.

 

[Rugbyfan564]

I wonder how many players will have signed hybrid contracts by the end of 2024?

And how many of this six nations squad don't sign and are in/on the way to France. Bound to be a few who are not offered or turn down the hybrid contracts and go.