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England 2021/22

Which Tyler said:
That's a fair bit of false equivalence there (not to mention untrue, albeit a while ago).
Edwards has experience of Rugby League (4 clubs, 3 nations) & in Rugby Union he's been assistant and head coach at Wasps, and assistant coach at Wales, France and the Lions. He's been coaching for 20 years.
Baxter has experience of Rugby Union at Exeter, Exeter and Exeter. He's been coaching for 12 years.
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I'm not sure why you always nit pick my posts. Seems personal these days but if that's your thing.

The point is, people are saying they want the next England coach to have international head coach experience so exclude Baxter on that basis are the same people that seem to want Edwards (although less so on here) who also doesn't have international head coach experience. He's got a lot broader cv but in no way could you class him as an experienced head coach.

What I'd want really is both involved in the set up as they both offer different experiences. I'm not saying Baxter would be a great head coach but as I've said in my posts, I think he could be a good director or rugby.
 
Ragey Erasmus said:
Didn't he coach at a school in Exeter before that?
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Literally. Born and Educated in Exeter. Grown up in Exeter. Played for Exeter. Taught and worked in Exeter. Coached Exeter. Lives in Exeter.

Probably not the most rounded choice for Englands head coach. He could possibly be the best, but not a risk I'd go near to taking.
 
Baxter and his wife Jo live next door to his parents John and Roberta, and too his brother Richie and his family, on the family's 300-acre sheep-and-cattle farm a few miles north of Exeter's Sandy Park stadium.

I admire this, its a dream life if you've got good parents. Wouldn't choose it, and he hasn't chosen a world outside Exeter. He won't be a great choice for England.
 
MarkyH said:
Baxter and his wife Jo live next door to his parents John and Roberta, and too his brother Richie and his family, on the family's 300-acre sheep-and-cattle farm a few miles north of Exeter's Sandy Park stadium.

I admire this, its a dream life if you've got good parents. Wouldn't choose it, and he hasn't chosen a world outside Exeter. He won't be a great choice for England.
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I've seen the big eared boys on farms....
 

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Don't Skip Leg Day said:
I'm not sure why you always nit pick my posts. Seems personal these days but if that's your thing.

The point is, people are saying they want the next England coach to have international head coach experience so exclude Baxter on that basis are the same people that seem to want Edwards (although less so on here) who also doesn't have international head coach experience. He's got a lot broader cv but in no way could you class him as an experienced head coach.

What I'd want really is both involved in the set up as they both offer different experiences. I'm not saying Baxter would be a great head coach but as I've said in my posts, I think he could be a good director or rugby.
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I was unaware that I was nitpicking your post, or that you felt that I've been targetting you.
I reply to posts based on their contents, I don't tend to even notice who's said what.

The post above that I "nitpicked" really wasn't picking any nits - there was an outright untruth, an a whole bunch of false equivalence that I felt should be addressed - so I addressed them.

Yeah, people may want the next England HC to have international HC experience - I've not seen anyone claiming it's a necessity though (which doesn't mean they haven't, I just haven't noticed). Of course, if you're bringing in opinion from elsewhere than this board; then I'm not likely to have seen them, or have a clue what you're on about. As I haven't noticed anyone excluding Baxter on the basis that he isn't an international HC, I can't can't comment on those same people wanting Edwards as HC. Equally, I've not noticed anyone claiming that Edwards is an experienced international HC - just an experienced HC, and an experienced international coach with an enviable breadth of experience.

...

Anyway - moving on...

Baxter wouldn't be on my shortlist, as head coach or specialist - he's shown that with a very specific gameplan that's (IMO) unlikely to work at international level, and 10 years consistency with his players; he can get mediocre players to play above themselves, but IMO he can't get the best out of top class players, even when he has them for 40 weeks a year (but does seem to like playing them out of their position of best fit).
Edwards I'd be happy to have around the coaching crew; and I'd be willing to take a punt on him as HC if that's the job he needs to get him involved. I'd also have Worsley and ROG on my shortlist.
Farrell needs to wait until Owen has hung up his boots, Borthwick needs more than 1 season as club HC, Gustard and Hatley have failed at the club HC role, and have thus ruled themselves out at international level. Burt.... would be an interesting option, but needs a role that suits his skillset - which is hands on. Would any ex-England-HC take an assistant coach role for England? I just can't see it. Happy to have Cockerill involved - but not as HC (record is too patchy for me), and probably not in the same coaching team as Edwards; Sanderson might be an interesting choice as an assistant too.
Beyond that, I'd never say "no" to Wayne Smith.
 
Which Tyler said:
Baxter wouldn't be on my shortlist, as head coach or specialist - he's shown that with a very specific gameplan that's (IMO) unlikely to work at international level, and 10 years consistency with his players; he can get mediocre players to play above themselves, but IMO he can't get the best out of top class players, even when he has them for 40 weeks a year (but does seem to like playing them out of their position of best fit).
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Spot on. Recruitment plays a large part in Exeter's success and is a tool that he wouldn't have at his disposal as England coach. This in turn would limit his ability to succeed with his tried and tested "use your bigger boys to bludgeon their not quite so big boys into submission" game plan.
 
RedruthRFC said:
Spot on. Recruitment plays a large part in Exeter's success and is a tool that he wouldn't have at his disposal as England coach. This in turn would limit his ability to succeed with his tried and tested "use your bigger boys to bludgeon their not quite so big boys into submission" game plan.
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You could say the same about any premiership coach though. The key for me would be getting him in as a director of rugby role and not a head coach role if he was to be bought into the fold.

He has a vision for his team and recruitment game plan etc etc is all pulling towards that. He's been doing a great job at Exeter and England should make use of his talents rather than ignoring them because he plays a certain gameplan though.
 
Don't Skip Leg Day said:
You could say the same about any premiership coach though. The key for me would be getting him in as a director of rugby role and not a head coach role if he was to be bought into the fold.

He has a vision for his team and recruitment game plan etc etc is all pulling towards that. He's been doing a great job at Exeter and England should make use of his talents rather than ignoring them because he plays a certain gameplan though.
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Similar to what I was saying - Baxter has shown he has some good qualities as a DoR. I don't know if that makes him the right person to fulfil that role with England, but in the right role, with the right people around him, I think he'd do well. He wouldn't be my first choice but I wouldn't completely dismiss him either.
 
Old Hooker said:
Not really Eng 21/22 but anyway Brown's take on his bust up with T'eo. All down to Itoje….

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...t-end-of-england-career-before-2019-world-cup
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It's interesting but something doesn't add up. So people were getting quite drunk, I assume Brown thinks he wasn't. Brown also has a reputation as "mr angry" and admitted he was wound up already and yet claims he did nothing at all and it was all Teo. He then questions why nobody in the squad defended him if he was so clearly innocent. I'm not buying it.

I think it's more likely Brown also got drunk, got wound up and quite happily squared up to Teo. I can believe Teo was the instigator and believe he intentionally tried to wind Brown up but I don't believe Brown was a completely innocent party. If he was and nobody in the squad was prepared to defend him, that would in itself say a lot about his character.

However it's yet another case of English players getting ****** and making idiots of themselves.
 
Don't think Brown is putting himself forward as some shrinking violet, just that Te'o got him good and proper and then everyone else piled in to keep them apart
Te'o being a nasty drunk doesn't surprise me, there was always talk about him being a prick off field
 
TRF_Olyy said:
Don't think Brown is putting himself forward as some shrinking violet, just that Te'o got him good and proper and then everyone else piled in to keep them apart
Te'o being a nasty drunk doesn't surprise me, there was always talk about him being a prick off field
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That's a pretty awful story.
 
Piece on Mercer in the Times where he says that he was just cast aside by England after his last cap without any constructive feedback on what he needed to improve. That's just poor management. The article's not anti Jones and given it's not beyond the realms of possibility that Mercer might come back to give the RWC a crack we have to take that as a simple statement of fact.

As Brown tells it a similar theme runs through his story in that Jones never actually gave him true feedback why he didn't get in the RWC squad, becoming abusive when Brown pushed him. Doesn't matter whether you have a couple of caps or 70, everyone's entitled to both honest feedback and respect.

Rugbypass has a more detailed account of the Brown / Te'o bust up. Brown says he'd only had a couple of drinks but the more interesting part is his version of his subsequent dealings with Jones. 2 sides to every story of course, but I can't see that Brown would have anything to gain by materially misrepresenting what happened.

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/how-a-maro-itoje-prank-triggered-infamous-inhouse-england-brawl/
 
I mean what happened to having a few drinks and fighting your team mates and then sorting things out to be closer knit come the weekend?
Maybe harder at international level.
 
I want the backstory. Why did Teo have one on him? Why did he hate Brown so much? Was he scared he wasn't the most masculine pathetic meathead in the changing room?
 

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