[COVID-19] General Discussion

[TRF_Olyy]

speaking personally, i have nothing to hide and try not to let something like principle get in the way of addressing a clear and present physical danger, pride wont make my loved ones feel better if they contract COVID

I'm of a similar thought - but it really depends who is in charge of the data/app.

At the end of the day, though: I use facebook, instagram, have a google phone, use the GPS on it almost daily (or at least did when we were allowed out). My data's all over the place already.

 

[General Melchett]

Rumours that the 'Stay at home' slogan will be scrapped in the UK from Monday with unlimited outdoor time allowed while observing the 2m rule. May also be able to meet a limited number of people in outdoor settings like parks for picnics etc.

I assume BoJo will confirm on Sunday evening.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

I suspect Rishi will also be there beside Bojo to announce how they plan to deal with winding up of Furlough from July. I am going to be watching that bit closely.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Tbh I think anyone who has criticized the government "putting lives at risk" over the past few months is incredibly hypocritical to then put lives at risk themselves by not partaking in the app.

I have security concerns obviously, and as someone who has lived in China and experienced that police state world this isn't something I would want to be continued any longer than it needed to BUT in this case, in these times and these circumstances... Just download the ******* app when it comes about. You could literally save lives.

It's you potentially risking getting a targeted advert if there is data leaks (anyone who thinks that the government is going to sell it is deluded, it would be political suicide and nonsensical to say the least) versus potentially saving people's lives.

Make the right choice

 

[TRF_Olyy]

anyone who thinks that the government is going to sell it is deluded, it would be political suicide and nonsensical to say the least

It's not that, it's more Cummings' Cambridge analytica mates that are now on the government payroll (and presumably the ones tasked with building the app).
They've already shown they don't care about laws or people's privacy, who's to say they won't scrape the data or leave backdoors for snooping etc.
Think that's why most people are saying if it's the Apple/Google app then ok (they're dodgy but at least people keep an eye on them) but the government made one is far more risky.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

It's not that, it's more Cummings' Cambridge analytica mates that are now on the government payroll (and presumably the ones tasked with building the app).
They've already shown they don't care about laws or people's privacy, who's to say they won't scrape the data or leave backdoors for snooping etc.
Think that's why most people are saying if it's the Apple/Google app then ok (they're dodgy but at least people keep an eye on them) but the government made one is far more risky.

Hmm yeah I get that, but surely there is more of a risk from Google and Apple? They're private companies with no accountability, is that not more of a risk...

 

[General Melchett]

Hmm yeah I get that, but surely there is more of a risk from Google and Apple? They're private companies with no accountability, is that not more of a risk...

I think the risk with Cummings and his Cambridge Analytica pals is that they will abuse their positions and use the data to engineer another election win which obviously undermines our democracy.

I'm all for the app but believe those charged with the task of building it should be completely independent from the Government with appropriate data protection/safeguarding measures and with no conflict of interest. Furthermore, the data should ONLY be used for the purposes of saving lives and not for political gain.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Hmm yeah I get that, but surely there is more of a risk from Google and Apple? They're private companies with no accountability, is that not more of a risk...

Than Cummings/Cambridge Analytica?
Not at all.

I don't trust Google/Apple much but I trust them more than CA.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

I think the risk with Cummings and his Cambridge Analytica pals is that they will abuse their positions and use the data to engineer another election win which obviously undermines our democracy.

I'm all for the app but believe those charged with the task of building it should be completely independent from the Government with appropriate data protection/safeguarding measures and with no conflict of interest. Furthermore, the data should ONLY be used for the purposes of saving lives and not for political gain.

Would absolutely be all for that.

Not a private company but an independent commission would be perfect.

It would take longer tho, and for now, time is of the essence

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Than Cummings/Cambridge Analytica?
Not at all.

I don't trust Google/Apple much but I trust them more than CA.

I've just had a little look around and I'm struggling to find a reputable news source anywhere that says CA are actually involved?

Would that not be headline news?

Would you mind chucking in a link cause I'd like to read more about it if that's the case.

I understand not trusting Cummings and would prefer he wasn't involved, but its a sacrifice I would be willing to make in this circumstance...

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I've just had a little look around and I'm struggling to find a reputable news source anywhere that says CA are actually involved?

Would that not be headline news?

Would you mind chucking in a link cause I'd like to read more about it if that's the case.

I understand not trusting Cummings and would prefer he wasn't involved, but its a sacrifice I would be willing to make in this circumstance...

It's all just speculation really,

Cummings hired Ben Warner to be his 2iC (he even goes to SAGE meetings, which is unprecedented). Warner worked with CA at a previous role in an AI firm in Canada.
Warner's brother's firm, who did the AI for Vote Leave, advised by CA, has been hired by the government for multiple contracts, one of which is being involved in the new tracing app.
The contract for the app did not go to tender, it went straight to Warner's brother.

It's all a bit dodgy, really.


Edit: reformatted

 

[Which Tyler]

It would take longer tho, and for now, time is of the essence

Yes, something that already exists would take do much longer than starting from scratch...

I've just had a little look around and I'm struggling to find a reputable news source anywhere that says CA are actually involved?

CA are defunct. It no longer exists.
Of course CA aren't involved.
Every name we know of attached to this app were partnered at the hip with CA...

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Yes, something that already exists would take do much longer than starting from scratch...


CA are defunct. It no longer exists.
Of course CA aren't involved.
Every name we know of attached to this app were partnered at the hip with CA...

On the first point, you know what I mean... In terms of the entire process it would have taken more time to form and independent and again unacountable group to make the app. I would prefer it was done by a group the gov had no control over but that would likely have delayed the process.

 

[Amiga500]

On the first point, you know what I mean... In terms of the entire process it would have taken more time to form and independent and again unacountable group to make the app/

More time just using the one google and apple had already started?

Seems like another U-turn could be in the works...
https://techcrunch.com/2020/05/07/u...-api-for-coronavirus-contacts-tracing-report/

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

More time just using the one google and apple had already started?

Seems like another U-turn could be in the works...
https://techcrunch.com/2020/05/07/u...-api-for-coronavirus-contacts-tracing-report/

We were talking about an independently but governmentally commissioned one, not the ones made by Google and Apple.
One made by Google or apple poses as many if not more security issues than the government making one does.


Anyhow if they're now integrating Google's and Apple's tech with theirs then it's lucky that they trialed it on the Isle of white... It's almost like that's the point of a trial...

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Agree with Harriet Harman's point on the BBC news just then that parliament should pass a law on how the data must be dealt with after the pandemic and what it can be used for

 

[Amiga500]

One made by Google or apple poses as many if not more security issues than the government making one does.

I think not!!

The Google/Apple one will be subjected to far more independent scrutiny than any government one.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

I think not!!

The Google/Apple one will be subjected to far more independent scrutiny than any government one.

And whom would that be by?

 

[Amiga500]

And whom would that be by?

You can absolutely bet the EU will demand access to the pertinent source code.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

You can absolutely bet the EU will demand access to the pertinent source code.

Yeah probably. It would get called up under Article 8 of the ECHR I suspect.
The same ECHR that would investigate the UK government if there was suspected breaches.

The only difference is that almost every nation has consistently proved that they have **** all control over the tech giants. It's easier to hold a government to account rather than apple or google