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[COVID-19] General Discussion

The_Blindside said:
Good post.

My concerns are also that even if i get a supply of facemasks, how often do they need to be changed; are they washable and then reusable. Am I denying other health workers a supply of them, which are much more important to them than for me. Are goggles/eye protection also necessary, seeing as the the masks only cover the mouth and nose?

Then there's the waste the amount of used facemasks are going to cause. Is my scarf tied around my face, washable and reuse able going to equally effective than shelling out for face masks, which are going to end up on landfill.

That's not even getting the gloves - normal gloves ok? or are we gonna see a creation of waste caused by latex gloves being used.

Having said that I do believe it is inevitable that the Government are going to change policy on face masks, as part of a wider policy of easing lockdown restrictions. But there needs to be wider education of how and what masks to use, as well as effective handwashing, and social distancing. If home made ones are as effective as paying £x for face masks, how to put it on properly and what do you do when you have to eat etc. There's a lot of misinformation and mixed messages out there.

In South East Asia, it's become the part of the culture to wear them and frowned upon if you don't because it shows you are not thinking of your fellow citizen, in addition to the well being of oneself.
Click to expand...

Here's some information on how to clean a face mask.

https://www.inquirer.com/health/cor...ean-face-masks-facemask-washing-20200407.html
 
The_Blindside said:
Good post.

1. My concerns are also that even if i get a supply of facemasks, how often do they need to be changed; are they washable and then reusable. Am I denying other health workers a supply of them, which are much more important to them than for me. Are goggles/eye protection also necessary, seeing as the the masks only cover the mouth and nose?

2. Then there's the waste the amount of used facemasks are going to cause. Is my scarf tied around my face, washable and reuse able going to equally effective than shelling out for face masks, which are going to end up on landfill.

3. That's not even getting the gloves - normal gloves ok? or are we gonna see a creation of waste caused by latex gloves being used.

4. Having said that I do believe it is inevitable that the Government are going to change policy on face masks, as part of a wider policy of easing lockdown restrictions. But there needs to be wider education of how and what masks to use, as well as effective handwashing, and social distancing. If home made ones are as effective as paying £x for face masks, how to put it on properly and what do you do when you have to eat etc. There's a lot of misinformation and mixed messages out there.

5. In South East Asia, it's become the part of the culture to wear them and frowned upon if you don't because it shows you are not thinking of your fellow citizen, in addition to the well being of oneself.
Click to expand...
1. It depends on the mask. Basically, they work as stated IF worn correctly AND left alone FOR as long as it says on the tin. Some are rated for about an hour, some for 4-5 hours, some for a day, some for a week. Different masks can be cleaned in different ways; but unless you can steam clean them with 30% hydrogen peroxide (you can't) then I would trust it... Of course, if you're just after a barrier mask, then that's fine - it's only your own germs your trying to stop spreading after all. It's thought the virus can survive for about 3 days on cloth surfaces - so clean it, leave it 4+ days, and you should be good to go.
I've finally managed to source a pack of 10 PPF2 masks (I needed my professional ID, but it's the first I've seen that didn't required an NHS number) rated for 1 day - I intend to spray with surface cleaner; put in the over at 90* for half an hour, and leave it in a ziplock bag for a week, and re-use that way - IF the plastic lasts
Yes, buying PPE when you don't need it, and it's in short supply is denying it to someone who does need it.
As for the rest of PPE - here's PHE's guidance: https://assets.publishing.service.g...ent__community_and_social_care_by_setting.pdf
I am in primary care, patient contact; so follow the second line (gloves, eye protection, apron & mask).

2. Pretty close - but better to use one of the instructions for a diy mask - which will fit better than a simple scarf, and be more comfortable. And yes, there is going to be a massive increase in landfill, and single-use plastics from this - another good reason to use a home-made cloth based mask if that's the level of protection you're after (surgical mask equivalent).

3. Define "normal",a nd decide what protection you want to gloves to provide. Coronavirus isn't absorbed through the skin; your hands merely act as a vector from ANOther surface (someone's hand, doorhandle, card machine...) to then carry the virus to a mucus membrane (mouth, nose, eye, anus, genital) - wearing gloves is an alternative to washing / sanitising your hands; nothing more. Quite honestly, I don't know why PHE want clinicians to use them in basic patient contact settings - the only advantage they have to hand washing is that they are coloured, and provide a visual cue if you're about to touch your face. They ought to be latext free (allergies); and yes, they'll go to landfill.

4. There's a decent call to request the use of masks in terms of shrinking the viral cloud around an infected person who coughs / sneezes - but it's generally thought that the false sense of security increases the risk too much. I suspect that our government (and others, some of whom already have) will recommend the use of masks as standard for political reasons (showing that they've done something). That won't happen until the supply crisis has been eased - and I suspect what they'll actually end up doing is pointing people towards the home-made barrier mask options.

5. Haven't they been pretty common use in SE Asia for years now anyway as anti-pollution measures; so already an accepted / expected part of the culture.


RugbyUSA said:
Here's some information on how to clean a face mask.

https://www.inquirer.com/health/cor...ean-face-masks-facemask-washing-20200407.html
Click to expand...
There have been a few, none are verified, and all are contraversial - even the steam cleaning in hydrogen peroxide.
I'd also go with medscape and NIH, rather than the Inquirer (though for all I know, it's the same article)

Personally, I feel that for my situation, it's more a box-ticking exercise, so I'm happy to take the risk, but follow the most likely home-cleaning advice.
For a proper PPF2 mask, that means giving it a spray with surface cleaner; heating it to above 75*c; AND leaving it for 4+ days in a seasled environment (assuming the masks I get can take that level of brutality without disintegrating).That way, if I can get say 4 uses out of a mask, then a pack of 10 should last me a couple of months.
But I'm low risk, treating low risk patients, who I can keep 2m apart whilst face to face; treating very few patients in a shift, and with cleaning regime that an ITU nurse told me was better than most of her hospital (before I closed, that is).

Cloth based masks will take the amount of damage the cloth can take (they're also cheap, and not denying anyone else a mask) - so wash in soapy water, and steam-iron it; maybe throw it in the microwave (with a water source) for a couple of minutes. That should kill just about anything, and if the material can take it, there's no particular reason not to.


For those wanting to know more - I'd recommend these 2 articles:
"Wearing face masks in the community during the COVID-19 pandemic: altruism and solidarity" - https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30918-1/fulltext

"Surgical Masks, Respirators, Barrier Masks: Which Masks Actually Protect Against Coronavirus?" - http://emag.medicalexpo.com/which-masks-actually-protect-against-coronavirus/
 
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Here's a good backyard bootcamp workout for those under quarantine. :cool:

 
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Trumps response to being questioned about the possibility him downplaying the severity of the virus led to more people getting infected is to say "people love Trump." Firstly, what sort of idiot talks about themselves in the third person and secondly, what sort of idiot gives that as an answer!?

But it's just orange man bad of course?
 
ragerancher said:
Trumps response to being questioned about the possibility him downplaying the severity of the virus led to more people getting infected is to say "people love Trump." Firstly, what sort of idiot talks about themselves in the third person and secondly, what sort of idiot gives that as an answer!?

But it's just orange man bad of course?
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The Alpha Bro approves and agrees with this message...



We've had our own group of pants on head stupid protestors this week. Some loony left* journo who claims COVID is "absolutely no threat to life" is challenging the constitutionality of our lock down measures - she's representing herself too which is a good way to lose a case even if you were in the right over here. Her supporters are protesting that the case is being held "in private" but in reality it's just not open to the general public.

Not a massively interesting story other than the photo outside the courts of a bunch of old ones who are really just tempting faith and risking our NHS wasting ICUs on the already brain-dead.

*We have a bizarre left wing in Ireland right now, they usually destroy each other through pure idiocy but Sinn Fein managed to "get their act together" there recently.
 
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The Alpha Bro said:
ragerancher said:
Firstly, what sort of idiot talks about themselves in the third person and secondly, what sort of idiot gives that as an answer!?

But it's just orange man bad of course?
Click to expand...

The Alpha Bro approves and agrees with this message...
Click to expand...

therockmic-322x381.jpeg


Given the twits he put out of his big fat orange head on the body of Rocky...
 
So the French are trialling Nicotine patches as they find apparently that smokers make a disproportionately small amount of Covid sufferers.
Now as a Smoker who has chosen nor to for 2000+ days I'm kind of worried.
For me I've heard the saying the cure we are is worse than the illness.
I fear if Nicotine is the magic bullet to Covid it could once again open Pandoras box for me and possibly others.
 
If Swing state voters don't see what a dangerous idiot Trump is after all these briefings and vote him out in November I will lose faith in humanity; not that I haven't anyway especially with American voters who voted him in to begin with. It beggars belief what he is saying and what he just said last night just tops it off. I have given up on Trump supporters, they will vote for him come what may and make excuses for his totally retarded utterances. It's an identity thing with them anyway and they aren't really listening to the substance of what he is saying, just identifying with his brand.
 

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